RAH Reading Group - Puppet Masters

[pyan]

Originally Posted by Liz Pf

but one of these days we're going to have to have a "Why I dislike Lazarus Long" thread.

And why not? Excellent idea!

[HardScienceFan]

Originally Posted by TTBRAHWTMG

JD, Finnien, dsmith, liz

HSF: no that is the unrestored, butchered by publisher...restored is 1990 or later

Thanks T,know I know I am the owner of a butchered Heinlein!

[Mollygurl]

Originally Posted by Liz Pf

... but one of these days we're going to have to have a "Why I dislike Lazarus Long" thread.

I'd be up for that as well, though I haven't read enough books with L.L to add much. But I would be awfully interested in what the rest of you have to say about him.

[dsmith]

My library doesn't have Puppet Masters, so I still don't have a copy. I plan to stop at a few used book stores on my way home from work today to look for it.

[Urlik]

on a tangent to TPM, there was a sci fi series a few years ago (had a bit about Roswell and Majestic12) but the bit that caught my attention was the way that the aliens took over humans by attaching themselves to the central nervous system of the victim in a very similar way to TPM rather than the copy and replace method used in Bodysnatchers.

and thanks to all the info on which versions were edited, I now have to find an unedited version as although I liked PM, I found it incomplete and slightly frustrating to read, which isn't suprising as it appears that a quarter of it is missing

[pyan]

Originally Posted by Urlik

on a tangent to TPM, there was a sci fi series a few years ago (had a bit about Roswell and Majestic12) but the bit that caught my attention was the way that the aliens took over humans by attaching themselves to the central nervous system of the victim in a very similar way to TPM rather than the copy and replace method used in Bodysnatchers.

Not SF at all, Urlik - You know that they've already got Bush, don't you?

[dsmith]

Just got a copy of Puppet Masters- and it's the unedited version!

[Mollygurl]

Originally Posted by pyan

Not SF at all, Urlik - You know that they've already got Bush, don't you?

So that explains it...

[TTBRAHWTMG]

First of all...here is a fun little quiz regarding Puppet Masters if anyone is interested.

Robert A. Heinlein's "The Puppet Masters" - Heinlein, Robert A. Quiz

Next...even though not everyone has checked in as finished reading and ready to go...what do you guys think of getting started and letting the stragglers join as they finish? I have to admit, I've been finished for a while and am getting itchy!

If so, do we want to start another clean thread or just keep going here?

[Mollygurl]

Thanks for posting the quiz! That was fun. I got 9 right...(results below)

You scored: 9 / 10
Total points: 90

The only answer I got wrong was the city that Sam infected. OOps...my attention to detail skill must be slipping. *Hee*

Re: should we start the discussion...I'm game if others are! Might as well stay with this thread.

[pyan]

Nyaaah!!

You scored: 10 / 10
Total points: 100
The average score for this quiz: 7 / 10
(I should think so, too, considering I just read it!)


Come on then - someone say something potentially controversial! Any plotholes spotted?

[TTBRAHWTMG]

Originally Posted by pyan

Any plotholes spotted?

The first one that comes to mind is how on a couple of occasions they have people come back to life, already having a tough time remembering (already read a few books since Puppet Masters), but I was thinking of early on when Sam recognizes one of the soldiers in the viewscreen as a guy he killed on his little rampage...but through the whole book this isn't possible...I'm thinking of Heinlein's depiction of "sport" in the redzone, when the Titan's slip off the carcasses as spent flesh.

Another one that bugged me was how traumatizing being controlled is for Sam, and yet the congressman is standing up the day after being controlled making a big speech about how he was under control just the day before, apparently none the worse for wear.

Yet another, why when Sam was possessed, all the new Titans came from shipped crates, while they seem to be able to replicate themselves quite handily later in the book (although Heinlein atleast made a weak attempt to handle this one).

And ofcourse, a big one, these Titans are presented as adaptable...new leathery spiky shells, different versions for Humans versus Venusians, etc...and yet they were killed off by 9 day fever on Venus years ago and haven't adapted to it over a decade later.

[TTBRAHWTMG]

I have a few I've been chewing on that I'll put out there too:

1/ Heinlein has often been accused of being sexist...do you think Puppet Masters contributes to this criticism?

2/ One of Heinlein's recurring themes is "life-boat rules" and "there can only be one boss". What do you think of his commentary on these in Puppet Masters?

and one more for now...

3/ Heinlein often discusses his views on the nudity taboo...what do you think about Heinlein's commentary on this theme in Puppet Masters?

(I'm heading home...and going to check out 'old and new' Farnham's for Razor...I'll check in later.)

[pyan]

Originally Posted by TT

Another one that bugged me was how traumatizing being controlled is for Sam, and yet the congressman is standing up the day after being controlled making a big speech about how he was under control just the day before, apparently none the worse for wear.

Yes, this bothered me too. Senator Gottlieb looks ill, according to Sam - "his cheeks were grey and sunken, his lips showed cyanosis" - but he seems well in control of himself. and certainly shows none of the fearfulness of Sam.
Perhaps the length of time that you're hag-ridden has a direct correlation with the aftereffects - do we know if the Senator was controlled as long as Sam?

[Razorback]

Nice quiz! I got 9 of 10 as well (close but no cigar on the cult name). Tip of the hat to pyan.

I’m not sure if it’s technically a plot hole, but the way Sam and Mary went from strangers to married in 4.2 seconds didn’t seem plausible. I thought springing the Old Man as Dad out of the blue was a fun plot twist, but I didn’t think that relationship was handled very well in the later part of the book. Maybe it was handled better in the unedited version.

Originally Posted by TTBRAHWTMG

T
Yet another, why when Sam was possessed, all the new Titans came from shipped crates, while they seem to be able to replicate themselves quite handily later in the book (although Heinlein atleast made a weak attempt to handle this one).

And ofcourse, a big one, these Titans are presented as adaptable...new leathery spiky shells, different versions for Humans versus Venusians, etc...and yet they were killed off by 9 day fever on Venus years ago and haven't adapted to it over a decade later.

As for the replication delay, maybe they needed some time to adapt to earths gravity and/or atmosphere before replicating. As for the nine-day fever, maybe no alien survivors go off Venus to provide a vector or clue to the rest as to what adaptation was needed. Overall, I thought the handling of biological issues was pretty good for 1951.