Some tips to help new writers with grammar, punctuation, spelling, etc...

[Eleniel]

Originally Posted by Leisha

Yes!!! Over here in the UK we write single quote marks around speech and double quotation marks for a quote within speech, whereas in America you do the reverse, which, if I was honest, is the better way.

UK: 'My mother said "Don't talk to strangers", so I'm not allowed.'

America (and perhaps Canada?): "My mother said 'Don't talk to strangers', so I'm not allowed."

And in Argentina (and presumably Spain, since we get so many books from there) we use dashes. So the example would be:

Argentina: - My mother said "Don't talk to strangers", so I'm not allowed.

You don't have a dash at the end unless there's a reporting clause (?) after it, e.g.:

- My mother said "Don't talk to strangers", so I'm not allowed. - complained Sally.

I hate dashes for dialogue, especially when I type up my stories - I'm never sure wether to indent the dialogue or not. Besides, the dash has a completely separate function as a dash, rather than a dialogue indicator, so it sometimes gets really confusing. Personally, I much prefer " or ', but that's life.

[Wiglaf]

Eleniel, they do that in English language books?
Why didn't they mention that in my high school Spanish classes? It was Latin American Spanish.

[BookStop]

More questions about speech quotation and the other punctuation that goes along:

1) When a thought is interrupted, can one put elipses inside quotation marks, then comma out, descriptive part of sentence, then comma, quotation marks, and finally elipses before ending thought? Ex:

"Oh, thank you, dear. I have another…", she adjusted her coat which had twisted around when she sat, and pulled off a glove with a slight grunt at each finger and reached into her pocket, "…here. Ah. Would you join me in a holiday drink?"

2) When a thought is complete immediately before or after speech, does the thought end with a period before beginning speech, or does it have to have the comma (assumming there are no tag words such as asked, said, and so on)? Ex:

The man pulled his finger out of his mouth to examine the wound. The bleeding had already stopped and the scratch was just a small pink impression. "I think it's fine. Don't worry about it."

and the other way, when speech comes first:

"Have you heard of the King of Misrule?" The old woman slipped her nearly empty bottle in the netted pocket dangling from the seat between her shins and began to rummage through her seemingly never-ending supply of pockets within her coat.

and what about these - comma or period?:

"Ah, here it is," with a flourish she pulled a small leafy wreath from beneath her coat, and held it out to the man.

"I have treats in here somewhere." She again fumbled through her coat and when her hands emerged, she held an old tin.

and if there are differences, could someone please explain it to me as simply as possible so I can remember it clearly for next time

[BookStop]

When using Microsoft Word, I saved a copy of a story as a document, then also saved it, under a different title, as a WordPerfect document. When I opened both copies later, all apostrophes and quotation marks had been changed into funny little boxes. In tools, I turned off the straight/fancy quote button as suggested online, but the boxes reamined. I tried to find and replace, but as funny boxes isn't a choice onth e keyborad, I had to manually change each instance. Now that the slow process is finished, my document (word) looks odd because all the new quotation makrs and apostrophes are chunky.

I expiramented turning the auto feature back on and resaving under yet another name, and no change. *sigh* It's only on this one document, and I can't figure out why, and I can't fix it....

[Runya]

Thanks so much Book for that. I thought I had been right when I used all commas in every single dialogue, no matter what. THANKS.

*sighs*

Time to change my dialogues

[BookStop]

Don't change it yet, Runya. I'm not sure of the rules, that's why i posted. We need a professional I think, maybe Chrispy will drop in the thread and help.

[Runya]

... *sighs* Okay, then. Waiting for Chris... Though, when he corrected what I posted, he didn't say anything about the commas at the end of every sentence in my dialogues

[BookStop]

See, the problem is that Word suggested that I change some, but not all, which left me confused after I thought I'd already had it all down in my mind. Someone here will know 100% what the rules are, though, and most likely be able to explain it more simply than could be found elsewhere on the web.

[Runya]

Mmm... Okay, then. In the meantime, I'm going to check the web. Maybe I can find something useful. (not that I don't trust your means of searching the web. It's just that I'm a little obsessive compulsive )

[Runya]

Okay, sorry for double posting, but I think this will definitely help...

Dialogue: Punctuation, Capitalization, Spacing

[BookStop]

That is exactly why I have confusion. I rarely use speech tags, and often imbed dialog within short paragraphs with action taking place immediately before or after the speech.

See what I mean?

"I have treats in here somewhere." She again fumbled through her coat and when her hands emerged, she held an old tin.

Now if I had written, '"...here somewhere ", said the old woman as she ...' , it would definitely call for the comma, but I purposefully left out the tag, because too many bug me.

But, please, Runya, keep looking for more examples that might clear it up. Please, please, please. I can't find good examples anywhere on the web. I may have to resort to looking it up in a book! *gasp*

[chrispenycate]

Originally Posted by Runya

... *sighs* Okay, then. Waiting for Chris... Though, when he corrected what I posted, he didn't say anything about the commas at the end of every sentence in my dialogues

All right, I missed something. I'm afraid that can happen, and with some typefaces and my screen which is at the end of a fifteen metre VGA extension, and my poor old eyes… mumbles off into incomprehensibility. (Hey, who said he wasn't any too comprehensible at the best of times? Own up, or you'll all be kept in late.)

"And I'm hardly a professional; indeed, having gone through a technical education, rather than the letters so many here are universitising in, I should be next best thing to illiterate. I'm just obsessive, and believe that correct presentation can make a story easier to place and remove the "Aaarrgh" reaction from sub-editors.

Perhaps that will teach you to try to work out why I suggest changes, rather than blindly follow my suggestions; I am not infallible!"

Waits a few seconds then, when no thunderbolt strikes, continues…

Don't accept my corrections as divine pronouncements; it's always your story, and I'm merely trying to be helpful in pointing out details you might otherwise miss. I know that I overlook things in my writing, and since I know what I wrote (even if I didn't) they don't get picked up until editing, where hopefully I've forgotten what I'd written and discover it anew.

Perhaps my aggressive, red-pen technique says "this is Truth, structure ye thus," but that is not the message intended. Any more than it is "You idiot, can't you get it right? See how great I am." (I hope I don't give that impression) It's only supposed to say "I wouldn't have done it like that", hence all the question marks and 'perhaps's.

[BookStop]

Chris, I didn't mean to imply you were a professional. Idealy my, comma should've replaced 'or' and not 'and'. This is because you are usually quite correct in your advice, which is also why you always get these annoying questions directed at you

Do you know the answers to my above questions? I really am quite stuck and haven't found clear rules yet.

[HareBrain]

Originally Posted by BookStop

But, please, Runya, keep looking for more examples that might clear it up. Please, please, please. I can't find good examples anywhere on the web. I may have to resort to looking it up in a book! *gasp*

This is one of the best pieces of advice ever, but one hardly anyone seems to follow. Look in a published novel (a non-experimental, non-POD, non-self-published one) for an example of what you're trying to do. There is a 99.9999999999% chance it'll be done right.

[Runya]

Okay, I found this MCRW Article: The Grammar Wench's Dialogue Demo

I think it covers mostly everything you need, BS. Okay?