Some tips to help new writers with grammar, punctuation, spelling, etc...

[that old guy]

As someone who's gramatically challenged in the extreme, I applaud this thread.

Originally Posted by PTeppic

Is this a guide for "American English" or "British English"?

I was wondering that myself. I can't remember ever hearing a word like "shan't" in everyday conversation. I'm guessing it is almost an archaism in American English, though the rest of it seems to apply.

[Leisha]

Originally Posted by Frank menser

"Doris smiled happily"

Doris smiled grimly

Doris smiled evily

Doris smiled disparingly

Doris smiled lustfully

Doris smiled lovingly

Doris smiled foolishly....note that each smile is for a different reason and establishes a different emotion. To asume a smile is for only one reason shows a lack of imagination (no offence intended).

Doris smiled at the silly notion, which is part of the problem when you use absolutes. Adverbs are there for a reason and the fad over the past several years to try and eliminate an entire part of speech has resulted in a lot of bland writing (IMO).

J.K. Rowlings is sometimes refered to in this country as the "Adjective Queen" as she uses an average of about 14 per page. Yet despite this 'over use' her novels and the movies from them have made hundreds of millions. One would think it goes towards pointing out that 'truisms' don't really cut it with the public.

Personally, I find these 'boned' writings that minimalise the use of these two parts of speech boring, which is why (for pleasure) I often retreat to the Golden Age authors who IMHO had a better handle on word useage than much that I read today.

Language was created to communicate. Shades of meaning abound, which is what modifiers are for. An excess of anything is bad - as the over use of ADJs and ADVs can mess with your writing, so is the attempt at extremely limiting important descriptive parts of speech.

~Frank

No offence taken! And yes, of course poets need adjectives and adverbs; the poems in my own story are full of them! (This thread is to aid beginning writers of novels.) The point I'm trying to make is that, in most cases, there's usually a way to show these details instead of stating them (like "smiled grimly"). You see, do you do you need to state something that can be expressed through showing instead of telling? Though, I agree, sometimes telling is fine, otherwise you'd have pages and pages of long, drawn-out descriptions, which would send the reader to sleep. As for myself, I also write "She smiled grimly", "Peter looked happy", "she was tired", etc -- you have to sometimes, for the sake of word count and suspense. I see you are an author yourself... can you see what I'm trying to achieve? I'm just trying to encourage writers to be creative, by picking strong verbs instead of verb-adverb combinations, a couple of adjectives instead of a list of them, etc, etc.

Here are my offerings for alternatives to lines of telling. Caution: some suggestible content!

"smiled happily" What about this instead: Doris smiled. "Could this day be any more perfect?"

smiled grimly -- "Death awaits us, Marcus," said Brackus. "Take up your sword and we'll ride out to engage the enemy. We won't survive long, but at least we'll have delayed the raiders." His face took on a faraway look, and he smiled. "I just wish I could've held my wife one last time. God I miss her."

smiled evily -- "Perhaps you're right, Panthelos, perhaps I should have spared her life." Karnarian bent down and ran one of his fingers over the woman's lifeless face. He smiled. "But what pleasure would there be in that? Her screams shall linger in my memory, her blood shall stain this hall, and her death has eased my worries."

smiled disparingly -- Peter ceased struggling against his bonds and instead sagged against his captor. Why god? He thought. Why this end, when all my life I've abided by the church? Never once had he sinned, never once had he wronged another human. A slow smile spread across his face. Never once would he have that choice, after today.

smiled lustfully -- The Queen's hand rested on his chest. Henry jumped as the hand began moving lower. "I -- I -- oh -- surely Queen" -- he dabbed a hand onto his sweaty forehead -- "what -- what are you doing?"
The Queen's hand squeezed, and she smiled. "What does it look like?" Her voice was lowered, and it promised all manner of pleasurable things.
He swallowed.

smiled lovingly -- Harriet smiled. "I love you, Eric."

smiled foolishly -- "Oops!" she said, smiling. "Well, it's an easy mistake to make, isn't it? I mean, he does look like a girl, doesn't he?"


Of course, as you can see, showing lengthens your word count, so sometimes it is best to just tell.




As to that old guy: I'm English. Shan't is an old form of "shall not". Perhaps it's not heard of in America? Anyway, I suppose this guide is applicable to any country; it's really just encouraging strong writing, which is something anyone from anywhere can learn, if they aren't sure of these things already. Well, obviously not everyone will like this thread, but I wrote it because I just wanted someone -- even just one person -- to take something away from reading this, and to have improved their writing in some way.

I'm just trying to help my fellow aspiring authors.

[that old guy]

Originally Posted by Leisha

As to that old guy: I'm English. Shan't is an old form of "shall not". Perhaps it's not heard of in America?

It is certainly not in common use nowadays in America, though I honestly can't say why. If I heard someone using it I'd likely consider it an affectation. Or even that they were trying to sound ironic. Were I a writer I'd never consider using it in any kind of dialog. Unless I was writing Jane Austen fanfic or some such thing.

Anyway, I suppose this guide is applicable to any country; it's really just encouraging strong writing, which is something anyone from anywhere can learn, if they aren't sure of these things already.

Like I said, I think this is an excellent thread. And I need all the help I can get.

[Green]

"Shan't" is fairly common in the UK, but generally not with younger generations, and not with the working class. My girlfriend's Grandma is pretty well spoken, and tends to say things like this.

Goes back t' days when folk talked proper, like.

[Frank menser]

Leisha,

I appreciate your point (showing vs telling). The problem, though is a lot of people don't put that kind of thought into it and take the litteral interpretation. Heck...I just rankle at truisms (LOL).

I kinda like what Spencer Tracy said in INHERIT THE WIND.

"...I figure language is a poor enough means of communication as it is. So we ought to use all the words we got. Besides there's damn few words anyone understands."

~Frank

[Leisha]

Hey, I rankle at a LOT of things, even simple errors in my own posts! Urgh! It's so frustrating! But yes, I can see that some people may not appreciate my indirectness; I always assume they'd figure it out in the end.

Ah well, at least people are getting the gist of this thread.

Oh, and as to the "shan't" debate -- I use it occasionally, and I'm neither upper-class nor old! I must be the odd one out -- or perhaps us Yorkshire folk speak differently to everyone one else...

[Teresa Edgerton]

"Shan't" is a word that hasn't been used in this part of the world since somewhere around the beginning of the twentieth century.

And I'm betting that when to use "will" and when to use "shall" is as obscure to most Americans as the proper use of the second person familiar tense. If it doesn't come naturally, better to leave it alone. If it's part of your local dialect, that's a different story.

[Frank menser]

That being said..."I SHALL WILL my suffering sanity to the next poor soul who endeavers to figure that out.....

[Wiglaf]

I thought that there should be two spaces at the end of a sentence. I was always taught two spaces after a period or colon, one after a comma. I think that it is one after a semicolon. Since I do not belive in them, I am not sure.
By the way, thanks for its and it's. Not be allowed to use contractions in must things I have written, that was a problem area for me.

[Leisha]

Yes, I've read this too. Some editors and agents prefer two spaces after a full stop, colon, and exclamation mark (but not a comma or a semicolon), whereas others accept that most writers use one. My only advice would be to check with whomever you're sending your work off to. Personally I use one space, but that's just my preference.

Unless Teresa or someone else can give you more specific advice, since they're published? (Bear in mind not all countries have the same rules.)


Glad to help.

[Wiglaf]

The part about different rules in different countries maybe accurate. I believe there is a difference with usage of single and double quotation marks.

[Leisha]

Yes!!! Over here in the UK we write single quote marks around speech and double quotation marks for a quote within speech, whereas in America you do the reverse, which, if I was honest, is the better way.

UK: 'My mother said "Don't talk to strangers", so I'm not allowed.'

America (and perhaps Canada?): "My mother said 'Don't talk to strangers', so I'm not allowed."

[Teresa Edgerton]

I was taught two spaces after a period or colon, but that seems to be changing. While things are in a state of transition, I don't think it's a big issue whether you use one or two.

(And I'm not changing over until -- and unless -- I have to.)

[JDP]

That's odd. I'm British, but was always taught in school to use double quotes around speech. If I remember right, they were even often referred to as 'speech marks' as opposed to 'double quotation marks'. eg:

"What the hell are 'speech marks'?" blurted Larry. "Are you talking about double quotation marks? You're not s'posed to use them for speech, you know; you're s'posed to use quotation marks."

JDP glanced back down at his paper, shamefaced.

[Leisha]

I was taught the same thing at school, JDP. But in publishing nowadays, the UK require single quote marks for speech. If you send your manuscript in and it isn't set to the correct format, however, and agent/editor would not reject you based on that; it's a simple process of getting the typesetter to change single quote marks for double, and vice versa, should they decide to publish your novel.

Many years ago UK publishers also used speech marks (I prefer the term inverted commas) for speech, like America does, but somewhere along the way we broke from tradition.