Tom Bombadil

[Ashen Shugar]

What Chartreuse said sums up my feelings precisely. Liv Tyler could just as easily have been eye candy as Goldberry. The Barrow Downs would have looked great on film, and after an encounter with the Old Forest, Fangorn would have meant more later on.
Who would you get to play Bombadil if you were to include him in the movie? I'm having trouble casting the guy in my imagination with an actor.

[dwndrgn]

Just to throw my two cents' worth into the pot...

Tom Bombadil may have been a 'throwback' or an inclusion for pure entertainment value or he could have been an example of the mythology Tolkein was going for. For whatever the reason, I found it to be a wonderful part of the book and wouldn't remove it or skip over it for any reason. Without it, part of Frodo's trials and tribulations, his introspectives and reasons for continuing his 'quest' are missing. That's the main reason I was a tad annoyed he was left out of the films. In addition to the fact that he's just fun and mysterious and the kind of thing that makes people enjoy the wonder of life.

Regardless of the arguments to and fro, Tom Bombadil is part of the LOTR 'mythology' and doesn't need a reason to be there.

[Teresa Edgerton]

Although the Aragorn/Arwen subplot may seem very minor and unimportant to the rest of the story (I admit that it seemed so to me for a long time), if you read Tolkien's published letters and some of his notes in the HOME books, you find out that for the professor himself it was vitally important, and central to the whole plot in all sorts of different ways. The marriage of Arwen and Aragorn was the culmination of thousands and thousands of years of Elf and Human history.

Tom Bombadil and Goldberry were also important to him, but not in every one of the same ways. He had been telling stories and writing poems about Tom for a long time. But all his attempts to define Bombadil in terms of the LOTR/Silmarillion mythos and attach some specific meaning to his presence in LOTR were indecisive (even for Tolkien who continually revised his ideas). His importance to Tolkien seems to have been more emotional and personal than literary or mythic. The story of Arwen and Aragorn had all these elements.

I don't totally agree with the way that most of the extra Arwen and Aragorn, Arwen and Elrond, Arwen and (fill in the blank) movie scenes were conceived and written, and I do miss old Tom and Goldberry, but its not on the basis of their comparative significance to the story.

On the question of who could play Tom, if he had been included in the movie: before I learned that they had cut him out of the story, I had already mentally cast Robin Williams in the role.

[Neil040]

Originally Posted by dwndrgn

For whatever the reason, I found it to be a wonderful part of the book and wouldn't remove it or skip over it for any reason. Without it, part of Frodo's trials and tribulations, his introspectives and reasons for continuing his 'quest' are missing. That's the main reason I was a tad annoyed he was left out of the films. In addition to the fact that he's just fun and mysterious and the kind of thing that makes people enjoy the wonder of life.

Regardless of the arguments to and fro, Tom Bombadil is part of the LOTR 'mythology' and doesn't need a reason to be there.

I am on the pro Tom side in this for sure.. its true he played no further significant role but his presence was mysterious and definitely helped to move the story along into the magical and dangerous.. I would miss that part of the book too..

I loved all the woodsy bits too and Tolkien's descriptions of forests and trees always fascinated me.. from the Tom Bombadil section to the woods of Lothlorien.. Fangorn... and so on.. the Ents were a stroke of genius! I have spent a fair bit of time in forests around Shropshire mostly, being in the forestry commission as a young man, and I found a few bits of ancient woodland often deep in the more managed modern forest.. still surviving.. that reminded me of some of those descriptions... One of the old foresters showed me to a massive yew tree once.. very deep and hard to find.. that clearly could be shown the cut points where they had taken staves to turn into long bows... the girth of the tree (yew being the slowest growing of english trees) suggested that it was possibly two thousand years old!

That sends you back a bit in your mind as you sit and contemplate such a tree for a while...

[ommigosh]

I never really understood but completely loved the Tom Bombadil episode in the books and was disappointed it didn't make it to the films.

I have often wondered if the Bombadil character represents what Tolkien himself would most like to have been in Middle Earth. Apart from the world, full of songs, a bit of a recluse, completely content, wise, mostly unbothered by the world's troubles and adventures but capable and resourceful if really needed.
And always Goldberry is waiting for him at home....

just a thought

[Teresa Edgerton]

Now that's a very interesting idea, ommigosh.

Tolkien identified very heavily with Beren (whose name is inscribed on his grave), a sort of romantic idealized alter-ego, but now that you mention it, Bombadil does sound much more like a real counterpart for Tolkien. Much more.

(Envying Neil his experiences in the Shropshire forests. The forests around here aren't nearly so .. foresty.)

[Jay]

The questio nfo Tom Bombadil was answerd by Tolkien, he is simply a intentional enigma.

His origin is described here:

"Tom Bombadil was a well-known figure in the Tolkien family, for the character was based on a Dutch doll that belonged to Michael. The doll looked very splendid with the feather in its hat, but John did not like it and one day stuffed it down the lavatory. Tom was rescued, and survived to become the hero of a poem by the children's father, 'The Adventures of Tom Bombadil', which was published in the Oxford Magazine in 1934."

From The Story Teller: JRR Tolkien a Biography


Tolkien reiterates the intentional enigma here:

"Many readers have , for instance, rather stuck at The Council of Elrond. And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally"

From Tolkiens Letters#144

[Noor-Al-Haya]

The Tom Bombadil chapter is definately one of the best, lighthearted and entertaining chapter's in the novel, a bit of escape from the darker side. On a different note, if anyone has read Bored of the Rings, Tim Benzedrine and Hashberry (based on Tom B and Goldberry) has got to be the funniest parody ever, surely worth a read.

[Amber]

I always thought that Tom Bombadil was nature made into a person. He was the land force in personal form. The ring came from the land, and therefore cannot influence it, which is why Tom wasn't affected by the Ring. Tom Bombadil is the purest force. If trees and land could speak, that would be old Tommie.

And it fits in with Goldberry as well. The river's daughter and the land's son ^^

[AryaUnderfoot]

Tom Bombadil never really did much for me, but I can definitely see his necessity in the overall scheme of things. He represents a powerful good that is friendly and pure without the coldness of the elves or the vulnerability of the hobbits. He is a completely benign power force, and he's easy to like. The elves, for all their goodness, inspire an offsetting awe, and the hobbits, men, and dwarves are all a little too close to our own reality, since they can succumb to weaknesses like greed and lust and fear. Tom is magic made friendly.


That being said, I didn't mind that Tom Bombadil was left out of the movies, but the plot focus on the Arwyn/Eowyn/Aragorn love triangle was way too Hollywood for me.

[dwndrgn]

Originally Posted by AryaUnderfoot

That being said, I didn't mind that Tom Bombadil was left out of the movies, but the plot focus on the Arwyn/Eowyn/Aragorn love triangle was way too Hollywood for me.

I agree. I wish they could have left that alone.

[Amber]

Absolutely. *shudders* Hollywood saccharin is too much for me

[Rahl Windsong]

Originally Posted by chartreuse

I always had the impression that Bombadil was supposed to be God, or at least as omnipotent as God. After all, he is "the Eldest." Tom is pure, he is a totally natural being, and the ring has no power over him. In this respect, he's kind of allegorical. He's neither good nor evil--he just exists and takes care of his domain. It really annoyed me that Bombadil, The Old Forest and the Barrow Downs weren't in the movie, and yet they had all the extra Arwen/Aragorn stuff which didn't do much for the plot at all. I suppose they wanted to use Liv Tyler as eye candy, but COME ON, stick with what's important! Hey, and another thing, Arwen didn't save Frodo at the ford!

Aye and I am hoping perhaps they filmed the Tom Bombadil scenes and maybe they will add them in for the super deluxe directors cut edition DVD of all three movies with "extra footage" ect. <prays>

Rahl

[Thadlerian]

Originally Posted by Lacedaemonian

As to 'What was the point of Tom
Bombadil?', well for me he introduced the Hobbits and the readers to the sheer magic that awaited 'us' outside of the Shire. And for me this was another safe haven, in a land swamped in hellish danger. A big psychological factor when considering how few santuaries there are throughout the book, just Rivendell and Loth'lorien. I concede that this entry was potentially to satisfy personal interests and would probably not survive many editors knives in todays market, but hey it adds to the magic, mystique and beautiful wonder of this amazing literary achievement.

I agree. At this point in the book, the largeness of the outside world is overwhelming. Bombadil's house represents sort of a "buffer zone" for the hobbits.

I am glad they didn't include it in the movie. For me, the House of Tom Bombadil is something sacred and genuine, and there's no chance at all Peter Jackson could have made a worthy depiction in the movie.

[Balinor]

Originally Posted by AryaUnderfoot

plot focus on the Arwyn/Eowyn/Aragorn love triangle was way too Hollywood for me.

i agree if for no other than they took glorfindel out of the film so arwen could have more of a role