Theory on Book 6's ending and what we might see in Book 7

[Commonmind]

There are a ton of discussions about this elsewhere, and even a few older ones here on these boards. I've read a few of them, and like everyone else, have my own opinions. Please don't read on if you've not finished The Half-Blood Prince.

First things first: Everyone has an opinion of whether or not Dumbledore is actually dead. I, for one, do not believe that he is. Dumbledore's injured hand is one clue to this, as is quite a bit of the dialog he shares with Harry throughout his lessons. My belief, is that Dumbledore's dead hand is actually the product of himself and Snape trying to find a way to thwart the Death Curse, that in secret, they have been practicing how to use it on Dumbledore while not actually killing him. For one thing, Snape did not need to kill Dumbledore himself, but I believe he acted on it upon Dumbledore's orders, to get closer to Voldermort; Dumbledore knew the only way for Snape to gain Voldermort's full and complete trust, he would have to make it appear as if Snape had committed the ultimate act of devotion, by killing the only man that Voldermort actually fears.

I know the hand theory is a bit flimsy, but Dumbledore told Harry throughout the book that he would tell him how it came to be the way that it was, and I don't believe for a minute that the passing story of it being the product of him trying to destroy a cursed item fits when Dumbledore said it was a tale worth explaining in full detail. My theory is that Dumbledore will eventually explain this, of course, in Book 7, telling Harry how Snape and he learned how to thwart the curse. Dumbledore says, on numerous occasions that he trusts Snape completely, and Dumbledore, though admittedly he has made mistakes, has always seemed to possess a certain omniscience and knack for foresight. It could be that the Horcrux Ring he wore helped to protect him, and Snape and Dumbeldore reasoned out its properties.

Another important fact that lends itself to this theory, is how Dumbledore did not allow Harry to help during the scene in which came his demise, knowing full well Harry would have been capable of helping him fend off the Death Eaters, as he proved in TOotP. It is my belief his delaying of Draco and his pleading to Snape (as if to say, please, you must do this) and him rendering Harry immobile, was a well formed and calculated plan. He may not have known it was coming on the night they returned, but he probably understood very well what was going to happen and developed his plan so that it would work when it needed to.

A few other things I believe lends itself to this theory, Dumbledore would have wanted to devote himself to the task of finding and destroying the Horcruxes, and probably knew it best to leave Hogwarts in someone else's hands so that he could take on this task, helping Harry in secret, and helping him to destroy Voldermort. Also, the Phoenix, who left the Castle after his song was sung, and we know that Fawkes was Dumbledore's faithful pet, and would leave with him if Dumbledore chose to go into hiding. He did say he was quite busy and didn't have a lot of time, and in a sense I think his choosing to stage his own death served both the purpose of reinforcing Voldermort's trust into Snape, and also giving him the ability to leave Hogwarts in the hands of those whom could devote the time to the school.

Snape has on several occasions, saved Harry from harm, and despite his explanations to Bellatrix in the beginning of Half-Blood Prince, I believe he really is working on the right side. Even on the way out of the castle, Snape saved his life for a final time, saying that he was to be spared for Lord Voldermort (if he was to be spared for Voldermort, why did Snape not go back for Harry, when he was helpless, and deliver him to the Dark Lord then); it could well be the case that Voldermort wants to kill Harry personally, but we have to wonder if Voldermort doesn't simply want Harry dead, no matter what or whom causes it; we could speculate that he wouldn't care as long as Harry was killed. Of course, there are other things that say otherwise, that he does in fact want to slay Harry himself, or believes he must, but it is still very convenient that Snape has played the role of protector as much as he has. Also, I don't believe the Potions book was accidentally left behind by Snape, but was a plant. There were too many things about the book that were helpful to Harry, including the curse in which he almost killed Draco (and, wink-wink, allowed Snape to fulfill his Unbreakable Vow)

Now, there are arguments to be said about the body, the funeral and a plethora of other things, and all I can say to that is Dumbledore is undoubtedly a master of smoke and mirrors and likely could have arranged the entire event so that no one, including Harry, would think he was alive. The painting being in the study, well that could easily be an enchantment, as we well know, Dumbledore is an extremely powerful wizard, and I don't believe we've even touched the surface of what he's capable of (there were hints to this in The Cave, where Dumbledore began speaking in other languages, showing the reader that there may be more to the man than his wand and robes). And most of the other questions boiling in my brain-cauldron are hard to answer, but we can be sure that there will be a huge twist in Book 7, and the way Dumbledore's death affected most readers, I'm sure the elation of his return would have an even bigger impact (akin to Gandalf returning to the fellowship in Lord of the Rings).

Now, I know that a lot of people feel these Dumbledore is alive theories are based on the fact that we don't want him to be dead, and that is partly true in some cases. I assure you, though I am a fan of Dumbledore, the theory came out of questions I was asking myself about the plot, and not because I want to see him come back. I wanted Sirius back more than anyone else, merely because he got a bad deal, and because Harry would probably have been truly happy for once in his life had he been able to build a more robust relationship with his Godfather.

Oh well, that's about it I guess. There's probably a ton of other things I forgot to mention, but as I just got done rereading the book in anticipation of July, I'm a bit overloaded and can't scrape any more thoughts together.

[Riker]

I can't remember what particular interview, but JK said that Dumbledore is actually dead and isn't coming back. But, like you mentioned I'm sure there will be a portrait that Harry can talk to. You bring up a great point that I never thought about. Why didn't Snape grab Harry and take him to Voldemort? As I think he could have easily taken Harry back to Voldemort. I on the 'Snape is Good' side as well. And about whether Voldemort just wants Harry dead or if he wants to kill Harry himself, I believe strongly that Voldemort wants to kill Harry himself. He is the kind of person who likes power and wants to prove himself the most powerful wizard and in order to do that he would need to defeat the one thing he couldn't defeat before, and that's Harry.

[Commonmind]

As is the case with other authors who've given similar interviews, JK would, of course, not divulge whether or not she had plans to bring back an important character, especially when it would be critical to the plot. Plenty of other writers have said something along the same lines, and had been lying through their teeth. Think what you would do in her position. If you said "I can't talk about that, I don't want to give anything away," it would be just as good as telling your readership that you may have plans to bring back that important character; there would be too much room for speculation.

The only choice the author has is to deny it vehemently; that's the only way the truth of what the author intends to happen to be a complete surprise to the reader. Now, I'm not saying that she is lying, but there is the faint possibility.

As for Voldermort, I'm not completely convinced he would need to kill Harry himself to appease his inner ego. Voldermort has shown himself to be cunning and calculating, far beyond most psychopathic murderers. Of course he does have a measure of reckless abandon, but where Harry's concerned I believe he would be quite fine with another murdering him, so long as he was dead. He probably believes (or at least would let the public believe) that if he's more powerful than his Death Lord underlings, and one of them was to dispose of Harry, it would mean that he could have easily done so himself (although he's already failed on several occasions).

Let's face it, Voldermort has already shown that he wouldn't be terribly disturbed if someone else did the deed for him. Quirrel, though possessed by Voldermort, was not Voldermort himself. The Tom Riddle from Chamber of Secrets would have allowed the Basilisk to kill Harry, and as Tom himself said, he is Voldermort, past, present and future.

I believe his sentiment in Goblet of Fire, that he should be the one to kill Harry, and for the Death Eaters not to interfere, was merely a matter of circumstance and ignorance. Voldermort would have been elated by his return, emboldened by it, and thought himself capable of destroying Harry then and there. He was ignorant of Harry's power and skill, and suffered a loss. In the order of the Phoenix Harry is attacked by Death Eaters in the Ministry, who attempt to kill Harry. Now, if Voldermort set up this situation for Harry, to retrieve the prophecy as well as possibly dispose of him, would he not have made it quite clear to his cronies that he did not want Harry harmed? I would think the Dark Lord is intelligent enough not to have made that large oversight.

So, can we really believe that Voldermort thinks he should be the one to kill Harry personally? Or are we only basing that assumption on the two instances (in Goblet of Fire, and through Snape's pleading at the end of HBP) where Voldermort eluded to wanting to kill Harry himself, one of which was not made by Voldermort personally. All in all, I think there is more evidence to suggest that he would rather see Harry dead, no matter the circumstances.

[Lenny]

I agree with a few of your points... but, in terms of ending such a successful series, and in terms of writing something that will get people talking, what are the chances of reading anything other than a massive duel between Harry and Voldie somewhere near the end of HP7?

[HoopyFrood]

The prophecy seems to suggest that only they can kill one another...

...and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives...

[Commonmind]

Originally Posted by Lenny

I agree with a few of your points... but, in terms of ending such a successful series, and in terms of writing something that will get people talking, what are the chances of reading anything other than a massive duel between Harry and Voldie somewhere near the end of HP7?

I don't doubt the series will end with a duel between the two of them. But, does a duel between the two suggest that Voldermort would rather kill Harry himself? No. Does it also suggest that Dumbledore has to be dead in order for there to be a duel? No. In fact, I'd be more inclined to believe that Dumbledore would be Harry's only hope of defeating Voldermort, as he could be the person capable of teaching Harry the magic necessary to winning the duel. As we've already seen with Snape (in where Harry was trying to disarm him during the end of HBP) Harry is not skilled enough to hope defeating a simple Death Eater, let alone the Dark Lord himself. This is another reason that reinforces Dumbledore's death being a fraud, as I don't see any clear way for Harry to gain enough power, or to have gotten enough training, in the span of a few hundred pages in book 7, to hope being victorious over Voldermort.

[Lenny]

The prophecy seems to suggest that only they can kill one another...

There we go, then. The stage has been set for a duel!

It'll be interesting to see what happens if a Death Eater, or anyone for that matter, hits Harry with Avada Kedrava... in fact, it'll be interesting to see what happens if anyone attempts and 'succeeds' in doing Harry in.

---

I'm not arguing with any of your points CM, I just reckon that book 7 will have some kind of massive duel between Voldie and Harry, as V would want to kill H himself. After all, Harry is the only one to have stood in Voldemort's way.

If you were Voldemort, and had the same mindset, would you let some underling do it for you, or do it yourself, considering that harry is who he is and did what he did?

[Commonmind]

Originally Posted by HoopyFrood

The prophecy seems to suggest that only they can kill one another...

I agree, it sure does, and this something I've thought about as well. "At the hand of the other..." does suggest that they must destroy one another. The thing is though, as Dumbledore said, prophecy is infallible. He said something along those lines in HBP: does Harry need to kill Voldermort? No, he doesn't. But Harry wants to, as he admitted himself, and therefore he lends proof to the prophecy by motive only. Dumbledore is making the claim that the prophecy does not have to end word-for-word, and even shows the prophecy is merely an in-absolute foresight by saying the Voldermort created his own enemy by choosing Harry instead of Neville. That in itself suggests it is interpretive, that by "at the hand of the other" can even mean under orders from the other, or many other things.

I think I may be getting too philosophical here, but I love speculating about the end.

I have to admit, I never thought I'd be the fan of the books I am today. Though I'm a diverse reader, and have many children's books on my shelf, I almost didn't want to enjoy the series; like Pokemon and Dragon Ball Z, I wanted to dislike HP based on its almost cancerous popularity. I remember walking through the mall and hearing all the 14 to 16 year old kids saying the word "tight" and it drove me up a wall, so I guess it's just part of my mentality. I have no idea why I'm that way, but I am, and as the planet Jupiter says: "I don't know where all the gas came from, but it's part of me, and we like it the way it is!"

[Commonmind]

Originally Posted by Lenny

I'm not arguing with any of your points CM, I just reckon that book 7 will have some kind of massive duel between Voldie and Harry, as V would want to kill H himself. After all, Harry is the only one to have stood in Voldemort's way.

If you were Voldemort, and had the same mindset, would you let some underling do it for you, or do it yourself, considering that harry is who he is and did what he did?

Sorry Lenny, I didn't mean for my rebuttal to come off as argumentative, I didn't take yours in that respect either. I was just playing off what you said a bit. I do believe there will be a massive duel between the two, I just think there has to be someone to teach Harry to use magic beyond what he's currently capable of, and the only thing I can reason out is that it must be Dumbledore, as I don't feel anyone else would be qualified.

If I were Voldermort I honestly don't think I would care, as long as it were done. I'm not saying that for the convenience of my argument, but in the sense that I think Voldermort is more of a calculating soul, a bit like the evil version of Dumbledore. If I've tried to scoop a fly out of my soup, and failed on several occasions, I don't think I'd care who got it out, as long as people still knew I was the smartest guy at the table, and more than capable of swatting other flies, including those in present company.

[Lenny]

I'd just order a new soup, to be hoenst.

The idea of a massive duel could fit in anywhere, to be perfectly honest.

It could slot in somewhere in the first hundred pages, end with Harry running away with his tail between his legs, have a few hundred pages of Yoda-esque teaching from Dumbledore in a swamp somewhere in East Anglia, and then a massive duel at the end of Harry destroying Voldie once and for all... maybe even a nice little hero vs. nemesis scene on top of a waterfall ending in both characters plunging to their apparent deaths. Which would allow JK to carry on the series if she so pleased!

And on that note, I'm off for a bit. Toodles.

[Commonmind]

LOL.

To be quite honest I didn't retain most of your post as I couldn't get past the image of a squat, green-skinned Dumbledore teaching Harry to raise a Firebolt out of a swamp.

[Riker]

You bring up great points for Voldemort not killing Harry himself. It all makes sense and I withdraw my opinion of Voldemort wanting to kill Harry himself.

As for Dumbledore teaching Harry, could Dumbledore's portrait teach Harry? Prof. Binns is a ghost and he teaches the history of magic class. Also, another good candidate to teach Harry I think is Snape. He's good at reading minds and maybe reads Voldemort's (but I'm pretty sure Voldemort is good at Occlumency). Either way I think Snape would know Voldemort's weaknesses and could help point them out to Harry and maybe strengthen him in those areas for the final battle between Harry and Voldemort.

[Lenny]

Haha.

Sorry, CM. I seem to have a knack for skewing posts off topic with strange little things.

---

Now that's an interesting idea, Riker. Snape teach Harry? It's something no-one would expect. JK seems to like her twisting plots. And it would make some kind of sense.

[Riker]

JK likes to introduce things and then reuse them later. Like the polyjuice potion. When Harry and the gang use it and then it reappears when 'Moody' uses it. Or the thestrals and the portkey. There's others but I can't think of them right now. In book 5 Snape tries to teach Harry Occlumency, but nothing really comes of it. Maybe it's going to be a reappearance for Snape teaching Harry other things in book 7.

[Commonmind]

Good suggestions Riker, and I think it also reinforces Snape still being a good guy. Now if I could just get past seeing an Image of Harry standing on his hands, balancing a Dobby on his feet, I'd be okay again.