BSG Similar to Space Above & Beyond

[VALEN]

I think BSG should start being a bit more dark like Above & Beyond was.

You would think the struggle for food & water supplies would be a far greater issue at times.

[Winters_Sorrow]

Well I've only seen series 1 & 2 so far but I would say that BSG is pretty dark already!!
I didn't see Abvove & Beyond so don't know if that was more so, but it is made clear in BSG that they are constantly fighting the cylons and each other for natural resources. The episode "Black Market" in series 2 was very dark because it's human fighting against human with all the unique nastiness that entails.
The whiteboard in the presidential office is a nice touch too - it's a ticking clock counting down to the extinction of the human race after all!

[iansales]

I don't think you can really compare Space: Above & Beyond and Battlestar: Galactica. SAAB just wasn't that good. The science was completely wrong, the set-up was unconvincing, and the plots were often clearly contrived to make the writers' points. BSG is not only better drama, it's better sf too.

[Dave]

I only ever watched 'Space: Above and Beyond' after midnight, because it seemed like it was only ever shown then. Consequently, I probably don't have the best of memories of it. It is certainly the same genre.

I want to talk about the other point though: the struggle for food and water. In the first season great play was made of this. There was a whole episode about the consequences of the loss of a water supply ship. Tigh used to have his bottles of whiskey marked with a line, and even he had supplies no one else did.

Now, since New Caprica, there seem to be no problems with food or water, and the alcohol flows very freely. Adama and Roslin seemed to say that alcohol was being made on New Caprica in a flashback in the episode I just saw, but they left there in a big hurry. Too big a hurry to worry about a cargo hold of Tigh's favourite tipple. Also food spoils and anything they did grow on New Caprica is not going to last them too long now they are on the move again. Water supply should become a problem again very soon.

Really, the over-arcing plot is more similar to 'Lost In Space' or 'Star Trek: Voyager' - neither of which covered the subject very well either. Since the writers appear to have also lost their direction since leaving New Caprica and don't seem to know what to do with the show they should delve into this more.

[Brown Rat]

Originally Posted by Dave

Now, since New Caprica, there seem to be no problems with food or water, and the alcohol flows very freely.

There's an entire episode this season that's devoted to food shortage and the need to obtain more of the algae they use as a food source. And there's another episode devoted to problems with refining necessary fuel.

[judge_mel]

To be fair, Space above and Beyond is a military sci-fi show which takes place on a aircraft carrier in space, featuring a group of pilots fighting a war against an enemy they don't understand, and features some references to genetic engineering and androids.


Hmm... One could say exactly the same thing about Moore's Battlestar Galactica, although one need's to look at Moore's history to get a better picture of the deeper story Moore wants to tell. As repeated in the story many times: 'This has happened before, it will happen again'.

Many writers have a particular story they want to tell, and they strive to tell it over and over again.

Moore worked on Three Star Treks, and has a military background. Let's see. he wrote plenty of Klingon Stories, providing Galactica plenty of Military style posturing amongst the characters and crew, as well as it's tendency towards despotic conspiracies. Moore was along for Deep Space Nine, providing the basis for manipulative spiritual histrionics and the use of people as religious pawns of higher powers as a part of the fabric of the story (see also Carnivale). And Finally, Voyager, a ship he envisioned full of bickering and infighting crews lost in space and trying to find their way back to Earth.

Battlestar puts it all together.

What do you think?

[Browncoat2008]

Originally Posted by iansales

SAAB just wasn't that good. The science was completely wrong, the set-up was unconvincing, and the plots were often clearly contrived to make the writers' points.

SAAB, like BSG, is a dramatic series about humans fighting a ruthless nonhuman enemy in space, but there are plenty of differences. Let me comment briefly on some of your comments:

1. "the science was completely wrong"
Use of the word completely makes a strong statement. To say it is all wrong sounds more like bias IMO than honest evaluation. Do you have any examples in mind? How much televised scifi gets all of the science right anyway?

2. "the setup was unconvincing"
One of the things I liked about SAAB was the setup and the fight against the very mysterious Chig. Clearly this is no cheap scifi knockoff (like original BSG was back in the late 70's) and someone took the time to flesh out the details of the war with the Chig. I felt that their was authenticity to its depcition of the United States in space circa 2063. More importantly, my Dad - a veteran of the US Marines in WW2 - said so, too, and he knows a lot more than me (and presumably many on this board) about Marine warfare in a large scale conflict.

3. "the plots were often clearly contrived to make the writers' points."
When are they not? BSG is an awesome show but there are times too that I have shook my head and realized the writers are making things happen to further the plot at the expense of authenticity. Not often, I grant you, but it happens.

For me, I am happy watching both SAAB and BSG and choosing between the two, would be like choosing between my son and daughter...

[VALEN]

Originally Posted by Browncoat2008

For me, I am happy watching both SAAB and BSG and choosing between the two, would be like choosing between my son and daughter...

At last some one who likes SAAB.

I would necer chose between the two either - both are good Scifi shows in there own right:

But I also feel that SAAB seems at times more realistic

[iansales]

Originally Posted by Browncoat2008

1. "the science was completely wrong"
Use of the word completely makes a strong statement. To say it is all wrong sounds more like bias IMO than honest evaluation. Do you have any examples in mind? How much televised scifi gets all of the science right anyway?

Granted, television sf rarely gets it right. But SAAB seemed to get it wrong more often than most. In one episode, the resolution depended on them hearing an enemy fighter go past their damaged shuttle craft. While they were floating in space...

Originally Posted by Browncoat2008

2. "the setup was unconvincing"
One of the things I liked about SAAB was the setup and the fight against the very mysterious Chig. Clearly this is no cheap scifi knockoff (like original BSG was back in the late 70's) and someone took the time to flesh out the details of the war with the Chig. I felt that their was authenticity to its depcition of the United States in space circa 2063. More importantly, my Dad - a veteran of the US Marines in WW2 - said so, too, and he knows a lot more than me (and presumably many on this board) about Marine warfare in a large scale conflict.

I don't recall any references in the programme to the United States as a nation, only to the United Nations. I did find it odd that only the USMC appeared to be fighting the Chigs. There was a British soldier in one episode (a Coldstream Guard, IIRC), and occasionally you saw shoulder-patches from other nations... but it never seemed truly international.

Another aspect of the set-up that failed to convince me was the astrography. I could get no real grasp of which planets were in which star system. I don't think the writers even bothered to work it out. Even assuming the fighters were FTL, they moved suspiciously quickly between planetary systems.

Also, the Chigs died on contact with oxygen atmospheres... which makes you wonder why they're fought humanity. It certainly wasn't over Lebensraum.

Originally Posted by Browncoat2008

3. "the plots were often clearly contrived to make the writers' points."
When are they not? BSG is an awesome show but there are times too that I have shook my head and realized the writers are making things happen to further the plot at the expense of authenticity. Not often, I grant you, but it happens.

Perhaps SAAB was less subtle about it. Some of the episodes had the 58th Squadron performing operations well out of their assigned role simply in order for the writers to make some pithy comment about war.

[Chris McKeown]

I have to disagree with the topic header here. Space Above and Beyond is nothing like Battlestar Galactica in any way shape or form IMO.

Don't get me wrong I like both shows tremendeously. But comparing them to one another is like comparing STNG to Babylon 5. There is just nothing in common there.

[sdoidge]

SAAB was a classic in its time and had some great moments. I especially liked the "tank" heavy episodes.
I think you can compare SAAB and BSG because if you look from outside a fanboy perspective (i.e. I ask my other half) they look similar and have similar themes and tones.
SAAB is from a time when TV content wasn`t allowed to be as focused but it helped pave the way for shows like BSG.