Ok, some explanation for Lords and Ladies needed if possible.

[shadow9d9]

I know this is a strange request... but I pushed myself to finish Lords and Ladies. I finished the book and everything was decent up until the last 40 pages... I just didn't find what happened there at the end to make sense to me.

Spoilers-














What did the king elf do to stop the Queen and why? Was it the bees that helped stop the Queen? What was the deal with the unicorn? Why should silver horseshoes affect it?

Also, is it just me, or do the plots of Discworld books seem to fall apart toward the end? I am up to Men at Arms, and it was the only book so far with a satisfying ending so far.

[The Ace]

The King elf simply appeared, his displeasure forced the queen to abandon her quest (That's how powerful he is).

Granny Weatherwax 'Borrowed,' the swarm (supposedly impossible) putting her mind out of reach of the queen and giving Magrat the courage she needed.

Unicorns are attracted to virgins (Esme could outdistance any man). Once Granny had captured it, the shoes broke its bond with the queen and the world of elves in general, silver wouldn't hurt it. Pterry can be a little obscure sometimes

[shadow9d9]

Originally Posted by The Ace

The King elf simply appeared, his displeasure forced the queen to abandon her quest (That's how powerful he is).

Granny Weatherwax 'Borrowed,' the swarm (supposedly impossible) putting her mind out of reach of the queen and giving Magrat the courage she needed.

Magrat was freed and then it seemed like she was stopped again.. and then for some reason she was able to free herself again... why?

Also, what was the silver horseshoe thing?

[The Ace]

Originally Posted by shadow9d9

Magrat was freed and then it seemed like she was stopped again.. and then for some reason she was able to free herself again... why?

Also, what was the silver horseshoe thing?

Sorry, the borrowing freed Magrat, she wrestled with her own conscience and the queen's brainwashing, overcame that and was about to flatten the queen when the king arrived, he stopped everybody in their tracks.

I've explained the horseshoes in my edit.

[shadow9d9]

Mmm, obscure to say the least. The ending was pretty lame imo. Thanks for the help.

[High Eight]

Originally Posted by shadow9d9

Mmm, obscure to say the least. The ending was pretty lame imo. Thanks for the help.

Obscure? Only to someone who doesn't know even basic folklore. (Silver and supernatural beings)

Lame, how exactly?

[justhinking]

First I think that the ending to Lords and Ladies was a little ambiguous (though that's not necessarily a bad thing and I think that there are sufficient plot reasons for it too - Granny Weatherwax isn't one for patiently explaining her thoughts or strategy) but here's my opinion of it.

Granny Weatherwax essentially likes people to fight their own fights and wants them to stand up for themselves - I think that borrowing the bee's was essentially her escape (and allowed her to fool others into thinking her dead, an added motive for Magrat standing up to the Queen) while she used magic/headology/distraction and pain from being stung by a bee to alleviate the glamor effecting Magrat and allow her to stand up to the Queen (makes sense in context of the story and Granny Weatherwax's constant needling of Magrat to get her flustered and angry enough to actually fight the queen). Given the situation it always seemed to me that Granny could have overcome the queen entirely on her own but wanted Magrat (and the townsfolk) to fight their own battle to some extent.

The King's apparation cancelled out the Queen's glamor or over ruled it - he has enough power to do that at least - and without the hold of that over people the Queen's position was totally untenable (the prime source of their power is their control over others). Stalemate achieved the Queen and her elves fled (also there were some references to her losing power with daylight/with the ending of circle time so that suggests a further reason for her disappearance). This was not Granny Weatherwax's preferred option (again she wants people to kill their own monsters, not rely on elves or gods or Kings) and she chastises Nanny Og for bringing the King into it. Also the King's appearance and opposition of the Queen completes the analogue between Lords and Ladies and Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's Dream so from that perspective also it's kind of necessary.

The bit with silver shoes on the unicorn goes back to the concept of humans having tamed the land (obviously couldn't use iron shoes as that would have killed it) as compared to the wild savagery of the elves. It's possible that Granny may have used magic in this process (that bit about her remarking to the world in general that the soft silver shoes will last seems to suggest at least her somehow affecting the durability of them) but mostly seems to just be the old folkloric tradition that a virgin could tame a unicorn.

Didn't think it was that obscure, there is a fair amount of foreshadowing employed so I didn't fight the ending hard to follow but if you'd lost interest then I can see how it might have seemed a little abrupt or confusing. I like the book but to my mind it's not one of Pratchett's best. I still found it enjoyable to read and I do like the way he portrays elves in it - closer to the old Northern European idea of elves as far more malevolent supernatural forces than those found in Tolkien.

[Urlik]

well ELF is the acronym for Evil Little F........