George has updated!!

[TK-421]

Originally Posted by Lith

LOL It's amazing that any book release can garner the attention Potter has, but it must make all the other authors out there a little... resentful? Jealous?

Unless you are that master of prose Dan Brown.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Wiggum

November would be fine, I'm just getting a little sick of his rants about how abused he is by his fans, and how woeful he feels, and how unexpected the amount of reaction he gets is.

If you're going to leave these avenues of communication open, and even broaden them, a la the relatively recent addition of his blog, at this point you should be prepared for what will come through on most internet based communiques. It's a shame that many people abuse these things, but either deal with it, or shut it down. I hate the fact that this is part of anonymous internet relations, but we all have to deal with the fact that it is.

Finish the book, when you're done you're done, but stop bitching about your fans, idiots or not.

//off rant//

First, I don't know that I'd class as 'his fans' those people who hijack a GRRM blog entry that's dedicated to arranging, er, a meet with his fans, in order to complain that he ought to be dedicating every hour to writing.

Second, I don't know an author who bitches less about his fans and spends more time praising them.

Third, the blog entry above is at least attempting to inject a little humour into the issue, rather than just bitch about it. In fact, I can't see any bitching in it at all, just politeness and humour. So I think he is 'dealing with it', in his own way: but he feels that he has to at least explain to people why there won't be any more updates.

Generally, GRRM is pretty good-humoured about the negativity - during the latter days before AFFC's release, he used to wear a baseball cap with 'No, it's not done yet' as he wandered around cons, for example.

Regarding communication with fans, GRRM comes at this from a slightly unusual perspective in that he was heavily involved in the fan scene before he got famous and has tried to be as open with his fans as the authors he admired were with him. There are two problems with that, of course: there are now many more ways to do that, and (partly as a consequence) GRRM has a lot more fans. It's not a case of sending letters to a guy whose story you saw in a fanzine any more. It's mass communication. The HBO deal has only made it worse. I think GRRM is realising that he can't go on the way he was, but it goes against his grain to close off those avenues.

[MacNeal]

I just hope we can get a few more chapters of Brienne wandering around various villages asking if anyone has seen and "a girl with auburn hair?" and having them reply "Is there a c**k in those breeches of yours?" or "Is her hair auburn down below?" only half of the last book was devoted to such fare and we desperately need much more of it at the expense of Jon, Stannis, Tyrion and Daenerys. Or perhaps just more of Arya's day to day life would work.... every minute of her life put down on paper would be so incredible.... not.

Did Martin die and get replaced by Jordan?
Rant done...

[Funky Cthulu]

Originally Posted by MacNeal

Rant done...

I have faith it's all leading somewhere spectacular. He hasn't let us down so far. And on my second, more leisurely reading, I really enjoyed Arya's chapter. He's showing us a culture that's very different from Westeros - and it sounds like a great place to visit
As long as he doesn't get hit by a van and start writing himself into his own books...please, God, not another one!

[AryaUnderfoot]

Originally Posted by MacNeal

Did Martin die and get replaced by Jordan?
Rant done...

OUCH. That's a bit harsh, don't you think? Martin at his worst is still far better than Jordan at his best.

[pyan]

Originally Posted by AryaUnderfoot

OUCH. That's a bit harsh, don't you think? Martin at his worst is still far better than Jordan at his best.

I don't know - I got the impression they were converging.
I read AFfC with mounting amazement that anyone could get away with this - and when I read the postword, I nearly threw the thing across the room. I just hope that ADwD makes up for it.

[Boaz]

I thought AFFC was relevant to really introduce the other players affecting the story's outcome. These are the Greyjoys (Euron, Victarion, Asha, and Aeron, hmmmm, it just occurred to me that Aaron, Moses' brother, was also a younger brother and prophet), the Martells (Doran, Arianne, and the Sand Snakes), and the Faith (the sparrows and the militant orders).

Perhaps the main point of AFFC was to continue the development of Jaime Lannister. If AFFC or ADWD had just picked up five years after the Red Wedding, Joffrey's death, and the fall of Tywin Lannister, would we have even recognized the changed man Jaime will become? I, for one, would probably have blamed GRRM for not filling us in on how Jaime did a 180.

After Jaime, Cersei's development, or should I say devolution, was germane to the Iron Throne. Cersei is evil and she could have been used to introduce more evil characters, but her descent into foolishness and the introduction of her fools was fairly interesting. Joff's petulance and Cersei's debauchery are there to recall the totally amoral reign of Aerys II.

Also moving smaller plots along were Arya, Sam, Sansa, and Brienne. Arya's story is her own personal story, imo. Sam's story is being used to set up the return of magic, the return of Dragons, and the introductions of Rh'llor and The Other. Sansa's story is the story of the Starks. Brienne's story and her subsequent death is the author's reminder to not get used to supposedly central characters. GRRM likes to lead us down dead ends and/or set up road blocks.

In the ninth chapter of AGOT, Jaime is shown to be in an incestuous relationship with his sister and tries to murder a child. I never thought that he'd become my favorite character in this series. For me, the Lannister brothers are the two most believable, enthralling, and thought-provoking characters by far. Even though AFFC did not have Tyrion, I still enjoyed it due to Jaime's soul searching, his repentance (though he doesn't yet admit it to himself), his newfound graciousness, and his ruthlessness.

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Alright a couple of things....

Am I the only one that remembers the first couple of Wheel of Time books that drew me in....or maybe you do remember and youre bitter about the next six books that killed the series in merciless fashion. Regardless the first three were good, definitely better than Martins worst. Im not sure what his worst is but it was probably used to house break a puppy or something.

I personally loved AFFC. Well maybe not loved.....but I enjoyed it. Maybe Martin didnt follow the characters he's built over the series...but thats his hallmark.....cycling through characters like an addict cycles through needles. AFFC moved along some plots, not all of em. Im okay with that, its the journey not the destination that is invaluable.....except in Jordans case, that journey is just too damn long.

Oh and as always I agree with Boaz.

[Boaz]

Before I get to the meat of my post (to which some of you might say, "Implying that your post will contain substantive content is at best unsubstantiated speculation and at worst wishful thinking") I'd like to propose that everyone use the following quote as their Chronicles signature.

Originally Posted by Aegon the Unworthy

Oh and as always I agree with Boaz.

Last summer, I read The Wheel of Time for the same reason I read War and Peace... I was either going to see what the fuss is about or I could at least say "I've read it." Now I can say, "I've read it, but I don't know what the fuss is about."

If I made a fuss about it, I'd say how wonderfully the series started. Now just listen to my paraphrase, I'm sure I won't do it justice...

A young man from a remote pastoral village finds evil creatures of legend searching for him. He and his three best friends, on the advice of a wizard, flee for the city of refuge. They barely escape the minions of Sauron, umm, I meant the Dark Lord by taking a ferry over the river. Gandalf, sorry, I meant the Wizard and a Ranger (who just happens to be a Prince) get the Hobbits, whoops! I meant, the young man and his friends safely to the city of refuge. Upon leaving the city, the Fellowship tries to escape their pusuers by hiding in Moria, err, I mean an ancient abandoned city. Then Orcs attack and break the Fellowship.

Isn't that a wonderful beginning to a fantasy series? I'm surprised no one ever used it before.

[TomServo]

Originally Posted by Boaz

Isn't that a wonderful beginning to a fantasy series? I'm surprised no one ever used it before.

Hilarious, I've got another one for ya. Ever notice that Jordan's region where the bad guys live is also a wasteland that is divided from the rest of the area by mountains. Also it contains its own Mt Doom, although I think he threw an 'h' in there to make it Mt. Dhoom.

[pyan]

Yes, but ever since LotR, every Dark Land seems to be a wasteland that is protected on at least three sides by impassable mountains - with just one secret weak point..........

[Funky Cthulu]

Originally Posted by TomServo

Hilarious, I've got another one for ya. Ever notice that Jordan's region where the bad guys live is also a wasteland that is divided from the rest of the area by mountains. Also it contains its own Mt Doom, although I think he threw an 'h' in there to make it Mt. Dhoom.

And the good ol' 'Trolloc's' = troll + orcs. I recall they were created by the Dark Lord (who also turned his eye upon you if you spoke his true name - original!)
I started reading the series when I was 13 - and that was 10 years ago. I couldn't pick them up again now and enjoy them, my horizons have broadened too much. Some of his ideas have stuck with me as memorable, but I swear the man just poured everything he ever thought of or heard about into the series and then tried to make it fit together. His battle of the sexes got on my nerves, too. Why did the female characters sniff so much? Hidden cocain addiction?

Nah, Martins worst writing could never be as bad as Jordan.

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Are you discounting the other things he created? From what I understand (gleaned from his thread on this website) he's got reams of material on all the cultures around his world. Sure, go ahead and call it derivative....but at this point everything has derivative elements to it. He just happened to emulate the single greatest fantasy series ever. Is that whats stuck in yer craw?

I see your minds are made up....Ill stop trying to be the voice of reason. I enjoyed the first half of the series....and you cant convince you didnt as well....ya cant ya cant ya cant.

Oh, and as always Boaz drinks paint thinner....

[Commonmind]

Debasing Jordan is fruitless. He's a successful writer, with an avid fan-base and while his stories may borrow elements from other works of literature, there's scents of that throughout quite a bit of the genre. The Dark Lord concept is archetypal and has been done many times; it's difficult to get away from this cliche whenever you're attempting to create an antagonist that is not flesh-and-blood. Beyond those familar elements, the themes and plot of his story differ to a very great degree. And while I might agree that his later works are all quite sloggish, I can't, in my right mind, discredit him as a writer. His style is different. It isn't that he's not capable or that he's an amateur at his craft, it's that he's chosen to take a different approach to telling his story. Though many of us dislike this route, it's a bit unfair to belittle his work based on our differing tastes.

Jordan is Jordan, Martin is Martin, it's that simple. Comparing the two or making jests about their work is pretentious; considering how much work either of them have put into their respective worlds and the level of dedication it takes to bring that world to an audience. Jordan was literally dying and still working his fingers to the bone during those few moments of lucidity he was gifted. Martin has tolerated an extremely demanding schedule and continues to devote himself to writing as much as possible. Any one of us that feels the need to take stabs at either writer, should first consider that our preferences and tastes do not decide the skill of a writer we do not like.

[Boaz]

Originally Posted by Funky Cthulu

I started reading the series when I was 13 - and that was 10 years ago. I couldn't pick them up again now and enjoy them, my horizons have broadened too much.

This aptly describes my feeling for The Sword of Shanarra.

<Boaz stands up on soap box>

It starts out... A young man in a remote, pastoral village is warned by a Wizard to flee from the evil creatures seeking him. So he flees with his short, stalwart, simple best friend. In Bree, err, a town they meet a Ranger (who just happens to be a Prince) who guides them to the hidden city where they arrive just in time to join the Council. The Council appoints a Fellowship to take the young man to defeat the Dark Lord. Gandalf, Aragorn, Boromir, Gimli, Legolas, and Legolas' brother are chosen to assist Frodo and Sam. Amazingly, Gandalf falls into a pit while battling a Balrog.

My good friend Aegon uses words like "derivative" and "emulate." He is a kinder and more gracious man than I am.

But I admit that I also love some of the worst pulp (or is that a double negative?) ever written... E.R. Burroughs' John Carter of Mars stories.

And Commonmind (our voice of common sense) has reminded me to walk a mile in Terry Brooks' shoes.

<Boaz steps off the soap box>

Why am I so negative today? Why am I so self-righteous? I think I'm going stir crazy waiting for ADWD. I probably need to abstain from these boards for a while. Thanks C.

Originally Posted by Aegon the Conqueror

Oh, and as always Boaz drinks paint thinner...

You know, I lick my brushes when I paint my lead miniatures. Paint thinner couldn't hurt at this point...