The Integral Trees - Larry Niven

[The Wanderer]

Thinking about picking this one up together with 'The Smoke Ring', it looks interesting, any thoughts?

[pyan]

I can't remember which way round, but one is a sequel to t'other - so get them both now! A bit difficult to get into, I found, but worth the effort.

[chrispenycate]

The idea of the gas torus is excellent, but I don't feel it came to life as well as some of his other books (as far as I'm concerned, the ideas generally have more life than the characters in Niven's work. That's an observation, not a criticism) I have fewer flash images springing to mind from this book than most of his earlier works; "A world out of time", sort of in the same universe (though several thousand years earlier) which is in a much less potentially interesting environment leaves a lot more snapshot images.
I popped over to the Niven site to check the title of that last, and discovered a novel called "Rammer" (which was the title of the short srory he expanded into world out of time) exists - hm.
And the two volumes (Integral trees and Smoke ring) make up one story, so you should get them both.

[Lensman]

The Integral Trees is the first book; The Smoke Ring is the sequel. Which is confusing, as if Niven ever finishes the third novel (he says it's "dead") then the logical title for the trilogy would be "The Smoke Ring".

I didn't find it as memorable or compelling as many of Niven's other books. OTOH I think The Smoke Ring "works" better, as an integrated novel-length work, than any of Niven's other novels. Niven's strength is short stories and what he calls "novlet" length; what the Hugo categories brand "novelette" and "novella" length. The story in The Smoke Ring seems to flow more smoothly, and the characters seem to be a fully-integrated part of the world, rather than outsiders inserted into it.

"Rammer" isn't a novel-- it's a short story. A World Out of Time is a "fix-up" novel composed of three previously published parts: the short stories "Rammer" and "Down and Out" (which become chapters 1 and 2 of the novel) plus the short novel Children of the State.

Altho AWooT does not hang together as well as most of Niven's novels-- it's even more episodic than most-- nonetheless I really enjoy it, much more than The Integral Trees or The Smoke Ring, and have read it several times.

[djp]

These actually happen to be my absolute favorite Larry Niven books - I think he created some wonderfully realized worlds, his characters are believable, and Integral Trees gave rise to one of my favorite phrases, "feeding the tree"...(Not to mention the gorgeous Michael Whelan cover art.)

[EmperorClobbersaurus]

These books are fun and set a canvas for a great number of portraits.

[clovis-man]

I found that the unusual settings for these tales provided a rich milieu to develop equally interesting characters. Great fun.

Jim

[AE35Unit]

I have both of these,Integral Trees being first but I've not read em yet.

[RVM45]

.....Could someone explain to me the "Tidal Force" that keeps people on their tree? . It is stated to be about .2 Gs generally; had weakened a good deal on the tree in "The Integral Trees"; and tended to push; pull; whatever; people (and objects) towards the tree at all times.

.....????? How would that work? Or am I missing something?

.....RVM45

[AE35Unit]

Originally Posted by RVM45

.....Could someone explain to me the "Tidal Force" that keeps people on their tree? . It is stated to be about .2 Gs generally; had weakened a good deal on the tree in "The Integral Trees"; and tended to push; pull; whatever; people (and objects) towards the tree at all times.

.....????? How would that work? Or am I missing something?

.....RVM45

well the trees are shaped a certain way, a bit like an integer ~ so I'd imagine a rotational gravity field as it spins on its central axis, forcing everything towards the ends of the tree, where all the people live.

[chrispenycate]

The trees are shaped that way because the molecules in the gas toroid are all independently in orbit around the gas giant planet, so the ones further out will be moving faster than the centre of gravity of the tree, and those further in slower. This gives your basic tidal effects. However 0.2 g (20 cm per second per second) sounds an awful lot; are you sure it wasn't 0.02? (actually, from what they could do I'd have expected it to be more like 0.2% of a g) I'll have to took out the books.