butterflies...

[scalem X]

I'm going to try it once more, start a thread and hope it doesn't die.

This thread should circle around:
love and seduction

An interesting rant pointed out that we in fact had nowhere on chronicles to turn to for advice about this particular object.
-Did you break up?
-Do you need seduction tactics?
-Have you got doubts and need advice?
-Have you got advice and warnings for others?
Then do your thing here.

Yeah I'll post my troubles too, but later (be warned)

[pyan]

*Deafening silence!*

Ok, I'll kick off with some advice:

Don't stay in a loveless relationship for five years, as I did - this is not a rehearsal, and you may not get a second chance. Get out - it may be awkward and difficult at first, but, long-term, it's worth it.

[nixie]

No use asking me, I'm useless at relationships

[HoopyFrood]

Originally Posted by nixie

No use asking me, I'm useless at relationships

Ditto

[Faceless Woman]

I am sixteen years old, and the only 'experience' I've ever had is one snog at a party with a boy I didn't like and then hung around for months while I ignored him nicely. Rather put me off.

[Seanie]

Originally Posted by pyanfaruk

Don't stay in a loveless relationship for five years, as I did - this is not a rehearsal, and you may not get a second chance. Get out - it may be awkward and difficult at first, but, long-term, it's worth it.

AGREED * 1,000,000

I was in a relationship for 4 years, 17y/o to 21y/o, the first year or so was great but the last 2 or 3 years was nothing but habit... We were in love with being in love but we didnt even realy like each other any more, twas such a waste of our time & energy!!!

[j. d. worthington]

Do not expect the "high" to last. Chances are, it ain't gonna. BUT -- if you have that ability to be friends and comrades, then that will count for a tremendous lot, and in with that will be long periods where that "high" makes a comeback, usually when you least expect it.

If you've got to where you barely tolerate each other, but sorta-kinda like each other ... at a distance -- get the hell out! You're doing neither of you any good (at least, if this has been going on a while... if it's recent, it may just be a bad patch; but after several months to a year, chances are it isn't).

Honesty. Whatever there is that might wreck a relationship, if you're feeling this one might be permanent -- get it out there before the two of you get too deep. That way, the other person can decide if it's too much before getting too far in love and getting doubly hurt -- having to break off something that means so much to them, and also feeling that their trust has been betrayed. Better to let 'em know when it looks like it's headed that way rather than living with that shadow ... if it breaks the two of you up, it would have done, anyway, and the pain would be even greater the longer you wait. If it doesn't... then you just might have found the one "for keeps".

Listen ... and expect to be listened to. Don't try to win arguments ... that becomes one-upmanship. Listen to what they say, try to find out how to fix things, and request they do the same. Use the "count-to-ten" rule if you start to get steamed. Getting ticked off and acting childish may feel really good, for about 10 seconds... then you've got days, weeks, months, or years' worth of making up for it to do (always assuming you can make up for it).

To hell with seduction ... at least in the usual sense. Take it from someone who knows -- you can live without sex for a verrrry long time. It's the little things that go along with being with someone -- the snuggling, the feeling them there, the laughter, the just quietly being together, that you'll miss a lot more than the sex itself. And if you have all those things in the right place... the sex will come; but it will grow out of the rest, and be all the stronger and better for that. And in the end, that's the best sort of seduction there is... sharing each with the other.

Those are a few I feel are very important, if you want a long-term relationship, anyway. Casual relationships are a whole different thing (they can, of course, become long-term; one never knows). But that's for another time....

[pyan]

Originally Posted by j. d. worthington

Honesty. Whatever there is that might wreck a relationship, if you're feeling this one might be permanent -- get it out there before the two of you get too deep. That way, the other person can decide if it's too much before getting too far in love and getting doubly hurt -- having to break off something that means so much to them, and also feeling that their trust has been betrayed.

And never, ever lie about money matters - far more relationships founder on those than on any other cause.

Listen ... and expect to be listened to. Don't try to win arguments ... that becomes one-upmanship.

Right. It's not a game - winning nearly always = loosing.

To hell with seduction ... at least in the usual sense. Take it from someone who knows -- you can live without sex for a verrrry long time. It's the little things that go along with being with someone -- the snuggling, the feeling them there, the laughter, the just quietly being together, that you'll miss a lot more than the sex itself.

Gods, yes. If you're really desperate, you can buy sex - but you can never buy affection or respect.

j. d, you're in the wrong job - ever thought of taking over from Deanna Troi?

[Nesacat]

Don't stay in a loveless relationship for anyone else's sake. No one is going to come along and give you all the time back to live again the way you wished you had.

Don't compromise and sacrifice yourself out of existence because you think it will keep the relationship together. You'll wake up one morning and find that you don't recognise that face in the mirror. There are things that truly matter to everyone no matter how silly or odd they may seem to everyone else.

The fact that you can shout louder and be meaner does make what you are saying right. Learn to listen and if you wish to be listened to then speak not yell. The count-to-ten rule works. Leaving the room and coming back when everyone is calmer works. Dragging out every tiny thing that ever went wrong in the entire relationship does not work.

If you can't understand or appreciate something that other does, that's alright. You can't always care for the same things. Being mean and derogatory about those activities is definitely not alright.

And this is probably a personal peeve but it really got to me ... don't ever take something that is deeply cared for without asking or at least telling first. And don't let all your friends and relatives help themselves either. In my case it was books. A great many 'vanished'.

Never lie or muck around with financial matters. If there is a problem be honest about it. It'll eventually come to the light anyway, usually at a point when it'll be the final straw that breaks the camel's back.

The big, grand gestures of romance are not the things that matter. They are fun and all but should be made to stand in for all the small things that really matter and cement a relationship together. The huge bouquet of flowers and box of chocolates does not equal not being around most every single weekend and every other time it ever mattered.

You other half is just that. She or he is not the maid or casual help.

And at the end as Max Ehrmann said all those years ago ... Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.

[j. d. worthington]

Very sound advice, Cat. Especially that about "dragging out everything that ever went wrong", etc. Yes... when arguing with your "other half"... he who wins ... loses.

And thank you, Pyan. Believe me, that's a job that's seriously underpaid!

[pyan]

Originally Posted by j. d. worthington

And thank you, Pyan. Believe me, that's a job that's seriously underpaid!

Don't be silly, j d! Wouldn't you put up with Riker to be on the Enterprise?

Oh, sorry, you mean in real life? - yes, but all the really useful ones are.

[j. d. worthington]

Ah, I see the Cat's done some editing and adding... Just like a Cat -- sneaky!

But yes, you're right, Nesa. Don't keep compromising and giving away parts of yourself until there's nothing left. Been there. It's not just a stranger you see in the mirror, it's a stranger you can't stomach... and it takes years to get back to where you know yourself at all.

And that being mean and derogatory... been through that one, too. Certain things that I loved were just shredded, for years and years, and I never could understand why the effort to do so, rather than just ignoring them as I tended to do with those things she liked that I didn't... until just before the divorce, I was told something that made me realize it was all about the other person feeling belittled because they didn't understand the attraction of those things. No, you don't have to like the same things, you don't even have to understand why the other person likes those things; but neither of you has the right to denigrate the other for liking them. That's where you celebrate the differences between you and realize that's part of what makes the other person special -- because they can be so close to you, yet so different.

And, lord, yes... spend time with each other. Even at your busiest, find or make time to be with each other. A relationship is work, it doesn't just happen, and it takes effort on both your parts. Being alone is fine, but being with someone can also be something really special, and it really can be better than being alone... but it does require effort, and communication, and being flexible with each other; sometimes they're going to take more, and sometimes you will... the important thing is to balance that out overall, so that neither party is being cheated or not respected. (It also doesn't hurt to, once in a while, give not only the big gifts but a tiny gift, even a silly gift... just for the purpose of saying: I've been thinking about you, and I wanted to see you smile.)

And don't be afraid to say "I love you" or tell the person how much they mean to you. Don't beat it to death, no... but you never know from one day to the next whether that person will even be alive; and living with having not told them that can be a terrible burden. Sometimes, even when they don't realize it, it's something they need to hear -- it can make all the difference when things get dark.

[pyan]

Originally Posted by j. d. worthington

It's not just a stranger you see in the mirror, it's a stranger you can't stomach... and it takes years to get back to where you know yourself at all.

Concur. It took me over twice as long as the marriage lasted to get back to the point just before it. My ex-wife committed suicide about eight years after the divorce, and I can still remember the feeling of release the news gave me - but the added guilt of feeling relief like that knocked me back again for a long while.

Wooo...you've opened a real can of worms here, Scalem!

[Nesacat]

Same here ... am still putting me back together. In my case walking into the lawyer's office and finally filing for divorce was the most tremendous sense of relief. I remember walking out and laughing and crying all at once. Then I locked myself away for close to a year. It takes a long time to rebuild. Too long perhaps. Some lessons are just learnt too painfully.

[Steffi]

One thing you have to remember that NO relationship is perfect. IT'S not always a bed of roses. There will sometimes be bad days but the good ALWAYS makes up for the bad.

We all have our moods be prepared to support your partner when he's having a bad day, likewise he should do the same.

Never let a row spill over to the following day and beyond...that can be disasterous, you may never come back for it.

I know it's cliched but if you are in the wrong never be afraid to say sorry.

I'm sorry it was bad for you Nesacat but I'm glad you came out the other end.

I am really lucky...we're still together after nearly 29 yrs.