butterflies...

[chrispenycate]

Ah, one thread on which the universal expert cannot pontificate; as senility approaches (or has possibly already arrived I have never had a "relationship2 which has lasted more than five months; almost architypal asociality.
One must believe that, when putting me together, something was left out on the hormone front; still, I haven't noticed the lack blighting my existance, or anything like that.
Perhaps it's just difficult being analytic and romantic.

[pyan]

Originally Posted by chrispenycate

Perhaps it's just difficult being analytic and romantic.

Mutually antagonistic, if you can't switch, I'd say, chris

[Curt Chiarelli]

I almost passed over this thread thinking its subject was lepidoptery. What connection, I thought, does Vladimir Nabokov, chloroform jars and push pins have to genre fiction? (That is, discounting Mothra . . . .) Well, it has nothing to do with Science Fiction/Fantasy . . . . but it does have dark umbilical ties to that modern Horror with the haunted visage of a seraphim, wings of gossamer and sickle talons that can shred your soul: that yearning phenomena we otherwise refer to as amore.

Obsession. Beauty. Captivity. Pain. Freedom.

Glad I peeked.

The first matter I'd like to address is that there is much wisdom to be gleaned from this thread: J.D., Seanie and Steffi have seen to that quite amply.

And bravery. Those are some very painful memories Nesa and Pyran - thank you for your courage in sharing them with the rest of us. It must have been very hard for you to write those posts. One part catharsis, another generousity of spirit. The transformative powers of the chrysalis allows us to heal, transcend and shed the agonies of the past to reach the next stage of our development. Fulfillment and destiny conspire to give us release from the bondage of old wounds.

As for myself, I've never had any luck in that department either. Like many here, when I see Cupid's approach I make a mad dash for the 20mm anti-aircraft guns . . . . I've never been married, but been rung through enough agonizing dates and hollow relationships with souless, acquisitive women to qualify me for writing a combat manual rather than a pillow book. Such is the icy tone and timbre of our modern times that the act of courtship is more akin to a leveraged corporate merger than a fulfillment of our heart's longing.

At the end of the day I've learned one thing with certainty: for a relationship to last you must like the person before you can fall in love them. Forget about lust - it's ephemeral. Friendship is the foundation for all things worthwhile. It's the beacon light that guides us through the blasted heath and life would be a desolation without it.

Accordingly, perhaps it's wisest to warm one's heart to the gentle enveloping glow of tender companionship rather than be consumed by the heat of a fierce raging light that gutters as swiftly as it came . . . .

As searing as the pain can be, we gain character, deeper self-understanding and compassion from being put to the test and buffeted by Fate's whim. After every cruel dissappointment, failed affair, broken heart or shattered marriage we bitterly say to ourselves, "Never again", but I think it's a sign of great strength that we draw deep breath, steel ourselves for the shock and crawl back into the saddle to tilt at those windmills again (a bit slower, stiffer and more reluctantly after another unhorsing - yes - but we do it!)

And you know, sometimes, for all that, we're pleasantly surprised . . . .

Not often.

Sometimes.

[scalem X]

mm yeah I kind of like the idea of a pyramid. (see image)

you will need this to have a good relationship. The problem poses itself when your base is not wide enough or a link is missing. A tower might hold it for a while, but a pyramid will last.

If only it was as simple. I constantly tell myself that I know what girl I'm looking for, but in fact I only know what girl I am not looking for. It's sad.

[pyan]

Originally Posted by scalem X

I constantly tell myself that I know what girl I'm looking for, but in fact I only know what girl I am not looking for. It's sad.

*Warning! Cliche ahead!* but true none the less

Somewhere though, Scalem, there is a girl who will see you and decide you are exactly what she wants - and then that is the absolute end of any choice you may think you have in the matter!

[scalem X]

Somewhere though, Scalem, there is a girl who will see you and decide you are exactly what she wants - and then that is the absolute end of any choice you may think you have in the matter!

Doesn't sound too bad , thanx Pyan

[pyan]

Originally Posted by Curt Chiarelli

I almost passed over this thread thinking its subject was lepidoptery. What connection, I thought, does Vladimir Nabokov, chloroform jars and push pins have to genre fiction? (That is, discounting Mothra . . . .) Well, it has nothing to do with Science Fiction/Fantasy . . . . but it does have dark umbilical ties to that modern Horror with the haunted visage of a seraphim, wings of gossamer and sickle talons that can shred your soul: that yearning phenomena we otherwise refer to as amore.

Obsession. Beauty. Captivity. Pain. Freedom.

Glad I peeked.

The first matter I'd like to address is that there is much wisdom to be gleaned from this thread: J.D., Seanie and Steffi have seen to that quite amply.

And bravery. Those are some very painful memories Nesa and Pyran - thank you for your courage in sharing them with the rest of us. It must have been very hard for you to write those posts. One part catharsis, another generousity of spirit. The transformative powers of the chrysalis allows us to heal, transcend and shed the agonies of the past to reach the next stage of our development. Fulfillment and destiny conspire to give us release from the bondage of old wounds.

As for myself, I've never had any luck in that department either. Like many here, when I see Cupid's approach I make a mad dash for the 20mm anti-aircraft guns . . . . I've never been married, but been rung through enough agonizing dates and hollow relationships with souless, acquisitive women to qualify me for writing a combat manual rather than a pillow book. Such is the icy tone and timbre of our modern times that the act of courtship is more akin to a leveraged corporate merger than a fulfillment of our heart's longing.

At the end of the day I've learned one thing with certainty: for a relationship to last you must like the person before you can fall in love them. Forget about lust - it's ephemeral. Friendship is the foundation for all things worthwhile. It's the beacon light that guides us through the blasted heath and life would be a desolation without it.

Accordingly, perhaps it's wisest to warm one's heart to the gentle enveloping glow of tender companionship rather than be consumed by the heat of a fierce raging light that gutters as swiftly as it came . . . .

As searing as the pain can be, we gain character, deeper self-understanding and compassion from being put to the test and buffeted by Fate's whim. After every cruel dissappointment, failed affair, broken heart or shattered marriage we bitterly say to ourselves, "Never again", but I think it's a sign of great strength that we draw deep breath, steel ourselves for the shock and crawl back into the saddle to tilt at those windmills again (a bit slower, stiffer and more reluctantly after another unhorsing - yes - but we do it!)

And you know, sometimes, for all that, we're pleasantly surprised . . . .

Not often.

Sometimes.

Dang it, y'do talk kinda purty, don't you! But thank you, Curt.

[pyan]

Originally Posted by scalem X

Doesn't sound too bad , thanx Pyan

De nada, scalem.

Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea

Robert A Heinlein.

[Stormpirate]

My husband and I have been together almost 15 years, married almost 8. We are soulmates and best friends. I actually think we've been together so long we've become co-dependent on one another!

Spend time together, but also have interests outside of each other. I have crafts and bellydancing; he's in a pool league. Togetherness is awesome; being in each other's company should be one of the best things. But it's also nice to be away from each other. Separate interests mean you have something new to bring to the table, something new to add to the conversation.

Oh, and separate checking accounts. We both have one, and a mutual one for bills. No one gets upset at who's spending the money; once the bills are paid, our money is our money.

[Allegra]

So, under the little 'butterflies' lies the big scary monster topic LOVE, how misleading! I think love is the oldest mystery that no one can fully interpret. There were even times I fell in love with love - I guess it's the weakness of women who's got just a bit too much imagination. And as unpredictable as love is, it's often short lived. Once I saw in the news an old couple in their 80s celebrating their 60 years marriage. When asked what's the secret of staying together, the sweet little old lady said:'Well, you have to live one day at a time and not to think too much.' That sounded pretty passive to me, but perhaps that's a valuable revelation? I don't know.

I don't know if there's really such a thing as 'Mr. Right', but I believe a harmonic relationship requires the couple having some basic quality in common, such as kindness, similar views about life and the world, intelligence and humour. Curt is right: 'Forget about lust - it's ephemeral. Friendship is the foundation for all things worthwhile.' I remember another Kurt - Vonnegut said in Slapstick: 'Please - a little less love, and a little more common decency'. Really, is there anything more fundamental than common decency? I think not.

May be each individual has a perfect match out there, except 'out there' is a big place, the chance for the perfectly matching items crossing each other's path could be as big as being hit by a space shuttle driven by some navy woman in diapers. So most of the people choose to live with the ones that happened to drop in their path. 'One day at a time, not to think too much'. I don't know. Humans are made to live in imperfection, it's certainly more interesting and challenging, or perhaps not?. (Oh no, must quit babbling... )

[dustinzgirl]

I'm not responding to anything in particular, and considering I have been divorced twice I am either the best or worst person to give advice on love. I think that love is without greed, it requires both perseverance and faith to work. It is an addiction, a high at first, but that will fade away, and once that does fade away, you only have the first two things---faith and perseverance---to live on. I think that is why people cheat, they are looking for that 'high' again (marriage # 1). I also think that is why there are so many divorces, people (both or one) in a relationship lose that first year high, and if they do not have enough faith and perseverance in each other then they will not make it through the next few years (,marriage # 2).

And on the other hand, if you are in a relationship where your significant other physically threatens, mentally abuses, or causes you harm, to fear, or controls who you have contact with or what you do, freaking run as fast as you can. don't wait for it to get better because even if it does get better, that 'better' is only part of the cycle of abuse. If you find yourself saying 'next time he/she will not hit/call me names' then you are in the wrong relationship. That was marriage # 1.

Oh, and stay away from men/wome who like to gamble/drink thier paychecks. That was marriage # 2.

[j. d. worthington]

You know, one of the best commonsensical essays I've ever seen on the subject was Ellison's introduction to his collection Love Ain't Nothing But Sex Misspelled, in its revised edition (he's right; the original introduction stunk). Some very sound advice there on the subject.

I'd have to agree that friendship is the very best foundation (and friendship itself must be based on understanding, compassion, and respect) for any romantic relationship. Beware of that "high" ... if that is all you have, it's like an old photographic flash-powder, bright and shiny, and lasts about as long. If you have friendship and the high (including lust) growing together -- as they sometimes do -- and you become aware of all that mix, then you may have the best thing going; you get the high, but during the "lows", there's still love, friendship, warmth, and a joy in the other person as a person full of surprises... even when you thought you knew them inside and out, they'll surprise you... because you care about them; not their body, not about how good they are in bed, not just about their tastes, or preferences, or fields of interest, but them as a whole, and no human being worth their salt will fail to be complex enough to surprise you now and again, no matter how well you know them. Take joy in that. And, as I said above, if you've got all that behind it, that high will make return visits ... sometimes long ones; and with rare cases... it doesn't go away; there's no hard-and-fast rule about it not lasting (again, human beings are too complex for anything to be true in every case), but it can't be the basis of the relationship ... it's the gravy.

And to those who, like Nesa, Pyan, and Dusty, who have been through that particular meat grinder... having been through no small portion of that sort of thing, my hat's off to you, all three. And Pyan: I can't imagine what it was like to have to deal with both the relief and the guilt on that one. That, and the fact that you're still open to the possibility of caring about someone again, speaks volumes.

[pyan]

Can you guess the worst bit?
I had moved South when she did it (in February, coincidently) - I went home to visit my Aged Parents in the summer of that year, and felt duty-bound to visit the cemetery where she is buried - and oh, the shock of seeing her name on a headstone.......
brought it home that that was it...
- and so final.

[j. d. worthington]

Pyan: Damn. Just ... damn.

[pyan]

Vivere disce, cogita mori. Dum vivamus, vivamus.
She is not dead, whilst I still remember.





Enough! There must be someone here with a positive experience to cheer up this thread!