Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008)

[Dave]

This is being released in the UK next week. There has been suprisingly little hype about it that I've seen. I'm looking forward to it; hope it doesn't disappoint!

[pyan]

Originally Posted by Dave

Okay, there are quite a few, and yes, surprisingly they are all good too!

Yes, I'd like to see Brendan Fraser's Rick O'Connell from The Mummy teamed up with (or opposing, for that matter) Indiana Jones....

[Dave]

I've just seen this. I'm going to begin a new spoilered thread to discuss it, but I thought it was excellent. I'd heard bad press reviews, but while Raiders of the Lost Ark is still my favourite, I'd place this above Temple of Doom and on a par with The Last Crusade.

For those that were unimpressed, then I think that possibly we have become so used to these action films that we have become blasé.
http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum...ouve-seen.html

BTW there was a trailer for a new Mummy sequel before it.

[The Ace]

Originally Posted by HappyHippo

I never really liked the films that much, so I suppose I'm biased. They're too boy's-own adventure for my liking.

I thought that was the whole point of them, HH.

[Dave]

I wanted to discuss the film without worrying about spoiling it. So, if you haven't seen it don't read on...

So, they set it twenty years after Raiders and 18 years after Last Crusade. I thought that was a good idea. It means that the actors are about the right age, and they made full use of the period costumes, music and attitudes. Henry Jones Senior and Marcus Brody are both dead. I did think that they tried too hard to shoe-horn in too many references, and the surviving the Atomic Bomb in a lead lined refrigerator was just ridiculous.

So, Indy worked for the OSS during the Second World War. I would have liked to have known a bit more about the last 20 years. I also think he might have sussed out the Ray Winston South African guy before now for the money-grabbing, communist sympathiser he was. Indy had obviously spent some considerable time with him, but he didn't seem like someone you could trust your life to either during the war, or even on a Mexican dig. And that was all the back-story we ever got on him, so it was fairly obvious from the start that he was a baddie.

I thought Cate Blanchett was excellent as the main villain. Also John Hurt as Ox.

I deliberately avoided spoilers on this, but I knew Karen Allen was in it, so the surprise that Mutt was Indy's son was lost. They did try to explain why she wasn't in Last Crusade as Indy had stood her her up at the alter, but still unlikely that their paths had never crossed again in 20 years. More surprising since she was living with his best friend from college and with his son. Remember that Marion's father was his college professor, and therefore also Ox's professor too.

It makes sense that Indy would have worked on Roswell. My son thought that it went over the top with the alien greys and spaceships, but I told him that the Ark was obviously and alien device. Still, the earlier films were more fantasy than this outing, which clearly gave everything an Erich Von Daniken - "ancient astronaut theory" - justification that had not been present before. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but it is a difference.

I'm pretty sure there are little references that I missed but I spotted a few:
-- the box containing the Ark in the area 51 Hanger that got damaged by the truck.
-- that statue that lost it's head was of Marcus Brody.
--the passing of Indy's hat on to his son in the final scene - not no not quite yet!

[Stone]

did notice another reference to Sean Connery that was quite clever, the diner scene when Mutt produces the knife - Indy says something along the lines of "nice try kid but you appear to have brought a knife to a gun fight". Very, very close to an immortal Connery line from the Untouchables

Overall i enjoyed it wasn't sure about the whole alien thing, and the tarzan reference but after considering the previous films it wasn't that far fetched really.

[Dave]

I've been reading up a little about this, and one of the reasons that it has been in "development hell" for so many years was the whole alien thing and the crystal skulls as a plot device. Spielberg and Lucas could not agree on it and went through several scriptwriters. I also forgot to mention the "Tarzan" thing too!

Do you think there will be a 5th film? Apparently, Spielberg and Lucas originally signed up to make five, but Ford had to go on high-protein diets and a special fitness regime in order to make this one. I don't think one should be made without him as the main protagonist. Also, how do you top this story?

[Stone]

Well as with all sequels if they can generate enough money from it then i think it will happen - i hope with Ford in the lead role, as i really wouldn't want to see anything else other than that.

There have always been rumours they wanted to do something with the lost continent of Atlantis but who knows. If they do another and Ford is the lead, i'll go see it. But there has to be a point when it is laid to rest and maybe this would be a fitting time.

[Allegra]

Yeah, Ford is Jones and Jones is Ford. No Ford no Jones. Something with Atlantis will be good, I hope they will make it the next. Gonna see it on Sunday. Can't wait! (Had my eyes covered on the 1st post.)

[ctg]

Originally Posted by Dave

I've been reading up a little about this, and one of the reasons that it has been in "development hell" for so many years was the whole alien thing and the crystal skulls as a plot device. Spielberg and Lucas could not agree on it and went through several scriptwriters. I also forgot to mention the "Tarzan" thing too!

As it was Lucas story, I was so scared about him repeating Jar Jar Binks fiasco from the Episode I. But overall I kind of understand why it was in production for such a long time. They wouldn't have had technology to produce the end scene at back in those days when Mister Ford was much younger.

I liked that he still knows how to fight and knew how to show it. Whole fencing on top of the ambihious car and jerry was quite a brilliant, but not as good as old Harrison one's. Then again he's the boy wonder. Very well written junior.

On the Tarzan notes, Indian Jones Jr would have been in the right age for reading original Tarzan stories or having seen on black and white television. I don't know many people who wouldn't have done it, but I guess there has been an battle between Lucas and Spielberg on should they use the voice or not. Who knows maybe the actor did it and they edited it away in the studio.

The Alien, the skull, the ship and the transformation was done very well. Also it shows that Spielberg (the UFO man - in good way) still have a balls to convey such a message. Is the US government getting ready for the Disclosure?

Do you think there will be a 5th film? Apparently, Spielberg and Lucas originally signed up to make five, but Ford had to go on high-protein diets and a special fitness regime in order to make this one. I don't think one should be made without him as the main protagonist. Also, how do you top this story?

With the Atlantis story, as you get many references to it. If they do it, I wish they would you something between 180 and 200 minutes. 120 isn't really enough for such a bridge between Sr to Jr. After that maybe one from the Chinese or Japanese Mythology with Jr having adventures at 60's -> 80's.

[Lucien21]

Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Trying to revive classic franchises after an extended break......never a good idea. Just ask Star Wars fans.

Is Indy IV another "Phantom Menace"?

Not quite. Certainly not as good as 1 or 3, but IMO it is better than Temple of Doom and that alone makes it better than 90% of movies made today. It certainly kicks the ass of the pretenders like National Treasure.

It gets off to a good start with the scene in the warehouse, the nuclear explosion (Although far fetched survival) and the bike chase. It certainly had some of the charm of an Indy film although watered down by expectation and some dodgy CGI late on.

The cast was great although some of them were underused (John Hurt in particular). Le Beouf was great, Cate Blancett was fun (Dodgy accent and all) and Harrison Ford slipped back into the role with ease.

My major problem with the film is the bloody stupid ending which to me didn't fit with the Indy style.

Overall though I think it was a fun old fashioned adventure movie and I had a blast.

7/10

[Allegra]

I loved it! Very entertaining and Ford is just as great as ever. Amazing settings and all that alien/spaceship stuff. Kate Blanchett's performance as a vilian and her fake accent did very well. Will definitely watch again on DVD.

[yngvi]

'Raiders of the Lost Ark' was a two hour film which seemed to last 45 minutes. First week it was out people cheered and booed in the cinema. 'The Crystal Skull' seemed to last three hours. The production tried very hard but the magic has gone away.

[Huttman]

For me, I had to look at my watch when it ended because it seemed so short, but it was around 2 hours, too. I thought the movie had a superb start, I laughed so hard when I saw the paramount logo turning into a gopher/prarie dog dirt mound. The movie was quite enjoyable all the way through, I don't think they (Lucas, Spielberg, or Ford) could ever make something I dislike. Indy saying "I have a bad feeling about this" was a GREAT Star Wars reference and I laughed aloud there, too, but I think I was one of the few in the audience that caught it. A line that was totally missing from this move was if Indy would have said to Marion, "It's not the mileage, sweetheart, it's the years." As for survivng the nuclear bomb in the (lead encased) fridge, I just knew he was going to do that, and got a big kick out of that. Did anybody else notice one of the FBI agents was the janitor from Scrubs? I would have liked to see more of a plot line with him in it (DVD deleted scene extras?).

It captured the B-movie action serial theme better than any of the previous films. This movie, I felt, was done for the fun of it. It felt like something Indy would be doing in his 60's. It was truly a unique thing Indy went after in this film, so much so that I understand why people are harping on it so much. I suppose he could have gone after something else from biblical times, like original biblical scrolls, the other Ark, or Solomon's flatware (just a tad of sarcasm there), but instead it was a powerful, mysterious object that they could have some fun with. The alien thing did feel a bit weird, I have to admit, but it's new. When I watch this movie again and again it will start to meld into the whole Indy genre quite nicely, just like the Star Wars prequels, for which I have no problems with.

It was so nice to have had something to look forward to that reminded me of my youth, and I've excepted the fact that Raiders of the Lost Ark is the greatest action movie out of all of them, The Last Crusade has the most heart, and Temple of Doom is the funniest I love to mimick and mock. I don't know how this one is going to fit in there yet, but it will. Don't take this film too seriously and you will get quite of bit of satisfaction out of it. Shia did a great, great job in his role, too. I think he was the only redeemable thing in Transformers besides the FX, although I've only seen that once, and his performance in Indy 4 was perfect. Overall I enjoyed this movie very, very much. Bring on more monkeys!

Oh, as for the Ark of the Covenant being an alien device (first post), uh, no, it is not. It was not conveyed that in the film, nor is it not in reality (nice homeage in Indy 4, though, even with the Williams' Ark theme).

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Huttman

Oh, as for the Ark of the Covenant being an alien device (first post), uh, no, it is not. It was not conveyed that in the film, nor is it not in reality.

I was using the word in it's older meaning - just simply "foreign, exotic, incongruous, not native, outlandish, strange".

However, Raiders did clearly show that it was not made by man - both by the pyrotechnics it produced to attack the Germans, and also by Brody's comments about it being a 'speaking device with God'.

In 'reality' (whatever that is in context because in reality it was probably just a symbolic wooden box container) that really depends on if you believe in the God of Abraham or not. What this film clearly depicted was that the Gods of the Nazca civilization and those of the Ancient Egyptians were alien inter-dimensional travellers.

What I was trying to say in the first post was that, until this film, none in the series had hinted that any of archaeological artifacts might have been created by beings from other worlds. The Ark and the Holy Grail came from the Judaeo-Christian God. The Lingham stones were symbols of Shiva.

Depicting Gods as alien beings is a major change to my thinking, but making the assumption that the Ark must also have been delivered by an alien posing as God is overstepping the mark, and I wasn't trying to say that. I would think it is unlikely that Spielberg would have allowed that, but his discussions with Lucas on the subject of this film might have been interesting ones to be party to, because I'm sure such things were included.