Harry Potter sucks

[monomaniac101]

Oh, I see! Yeah, I've been through there, but mostly on the highway on roadtrips

Southampton, England is cool, too! I've read about it, mostly becasue I'm obessed with Titanic.

[pyan]

I live in the area of Southampton called Woolston - 15 of the crew lived within half a mile of my house. [Link]

If you want to talk about this, start a thread in Discussion - History, or the Harry Potter fans may object to hijackers!

[monomaniac101]

LOL good idea! Nice meeting you!

[Nicole]

I don't mind Harry Potter, but I think they are getting a bit more credit than they deserve. Their a nice, easy read, but their not that well written. For example (don't worry, I won't give anything away), the surprising demise of a character in book six didn't make sense at all. There was no support in the plot. It seemed to me to be contrived simply to make the books less predictable, not because it was a logical thing to happen. Actually other than that, I have no problem with them. That just really bugged me...

[monomaniac101]

I think she might have a reason for what she did in book six. It's a matter of great discussion on the HP website I'm always at. We'll have to see, there are a lot of loose ends that she needs to tie up in the seventh book.

[xjaffaxcakesx]

I can understand there are totally diff reviews on the books but i really like these books

[Marvolo]

I think much of the 'I hate Harry Potter' comes from people trying desperately not to be normal. The books are loved far and wide. I, for one, love them also. But usually when people say things like 'I saw the plot twists coming because I read more sophisticated fantasy,' it just irks the crap out of me. I can't stand most fantasy because it is so poor. Most fantasy is so cliche that it makes me feel stupid just perusing through it. 99% of fantasy books are average, at best. When someone comes along that is very good at their craft, and wide received, naysayers always come up with thin reasons for not liking them. It just bothers me.

The books are great, seriously. I just don't see what there is to not like. Not original? Suck-up-to-kids literature? What the crap people? The same folks who bash these good works of fantasy are the ones that will gripe and complain that fantasy doesn't put out the quality they want. Well, here is your quality. And you're bashing it.

Go read some more tripe, since apparently you've been trained to like it.

(I realize this is an offensive rant. But hating Harry Potter? HOW DARE YOU!)

Marvolo

[HoopyFrood]

Hey, we're all entitled to our opinions...just like you clearly really enjoy the Harry Potter books, I don't and I have my own reasons for doing so. It's not because I'm trying "not to be normal". I concede that Harry potter is exceptionally popular and appeals to a lot of people. And yes, it is original. But it does not mean, just because it is widely received, that it has to appeal to every single person.

You say that the books are great because you obviously enjoy them. I, too, enjoyed the books for a while...but then, Harry started to annoy me. The plots started to annoy me. I've stated my reason for not liking the books so much anymore elsewhere in the Harry Potter forum, so I won't bore people by repeating them again.

But please, accept that people have their own tastes and opinions. I wouldn't try to dissuade you from your obvious enjoyment of the books, so please don't try to explain my dislike of the books as having bad taste or not recognising quality because that is not the reason. I would probably feel quite irrated if some badmouthed my favourite authors or books, but then it has to be accepted that people will always have differing tastes and opinions.

[Lenny]

I'm still going to race you through Book 7 Hoopy, and don't you think you can get away from that!

[HoopyFrood]

*Sigh* If you must, Lenny.

[Marvolo]

Originally Posted by aarti

I actually think the author of J.D's article, who thinks that fantasy the fantasy genre "tends to be deeply conservative--politically, culturally, psychologically. It looks backward to an idealized, romanticized, pseudofeudal world, where knights and ladies morris-dance to Greensleeves" is at least as much to blame as Rowling for stirring up ire!

After all, if the reporter suggested to Rowling that fantasy was all about Greensleeves, then one can't blame Rowling for wishing to subvert the genre. I think the reporter her(him?)self seemed to approach the interview with a very aggressive slant against fantasy.

Granted, this discussion is supposed to be about Rowling- but did that sentence not leap out at anyone else?!

Most fantasy is like that, wouldn't you agree. Go to your books-a-million and peruse the fantasy shelves. It sucks, hard. Most books are exactly like that "reporter" is describing, just hacks spitting out books about "fuedal" lands with some revision of elves or perhaps hobbits. For every true, unconventional, good author you folks name, there is an entire row of fakes, frauds, and retards.

Seriously, good fantasy will draft you into a world unknown and make you fall in love with characters who feel as real as your own hand. But most of it...awful.

Sad, but so true.

[Marvolo]

Originally Posted by HoopyFrood

Hey, we're all entitled to our opinions...just like you clearly really enjoy the Harry Potter books, I don't and I have my own reasons for doing so. It's not because I'm trying "not to be normal". I concede that Harry potter is exceptionally popular and appeals to a lot of people. And yes, it is original. But it does not mean, just because it is widely received, that it has to appeal to every single person.

You say that the books are great because you obviously enjoy them. I, too, enjoyed the books for a while...but then, Harry started to annoy me. The plots started to annoy me. I've stated my reason for not liking the books so much anymore elsewhere in the Harry Potter forum, so I won't bore people by repeating them again.

But please, accept that people have their own tastes and opinions. I wouldn't try to dissuade you from your obvious enjoyment of the books, so please don't try to explain my dislike of the books as having bad taste or not recognising quality because that is not the reason. I would probably feel quite irrated if some badmouthed my favourite authors or books, but then it has to be accepted that people will always have differing tastes and opinions.

Simply not liking the books, as you do Hoopy, is one thing. It is the insistent bashing just for the sake that they are the popular item is another. Someone saying "I just didn't like them," is different than the folks who say they dislike it because "It isn't written well," or the very popular "It isn't fantasy because I don't like it," or "I don't like J. K. Rowling because I believe False Internet Rumor A or B."

Not liking a book is one thing, but I feel they are attacked by people who want to be viewed as "superior." They think that because they dislike the popular item people will view them as intelligent.

As for why I listed "It isn't written well," as an absurd reason... they are written well. Books like the Harry Potter books and Stephen King's Cell or The Dark Tower V, VI, and VII are written masterfully. Most authors would kill to have the ability to draw people in like JKR and SK have. I just don't see the validity of that argument. I pick up books from the bookstore to read that are poorly written, despite the critical praise. Most times those books are plotted well, but the author fails to use pull me in because they insist on poor sentence structure or ambigiuos chapters that are aimed at keeping me in the dark about EVERYTHING instead of plainly describing the action and allowing me to learn as much as the character learns.

I'm tired of ranting. I'm just going to stop mid-rant. *Laugh* I'd be less frustrated if someone told me they hated my face. Don't mess with my Potter. He's my bro.

[HoopyFrood]

Ah! A Stephen King fan! Now there is something that I will definitely agree with you about. He's a legend

[pyan]

Woo! Why not say what you think, Marvolo, and stop beating around the bush?

Originally Posted by Marvolo

I think much of the 'I hate Harry Potter' comes from people trying desperately not to be normal.

I don't follow this - do you mean that people say they don't like the books out of a desire just to show they're not one of the common herd? I personally don't like them because they're badly underwritten and full of plotholes. Nothing to do with any desire to take a contrary point of view

Originally Posted by Marvolo

The books are loved far and wide. I, for one, love them also.

Absolutely your right - and I will defend your right to enjoy them down to the wire. However, that doesn't mean I have to agree with you.

Originally Posted by Marvolo

But usually when people say things like 'I saw the plot twists coming because I read more sophisticated fantasy,' it just irks the crap out of me. I can't stand most fantasy because it is so poor. Most fantasy is so cliche that it makes me feel stupid just perusing through it.

A lot of people like fantasy - but given there are different qualities of it, and different types of reader, would you deny them the right to read it just because you don't like it? And the plot twists are heavily telegraphed - a more mature writer would hide them better. She's only written seven books, and that makes her still a rookie in the genre - a fortunate, rich rookie, granted but a rookie nonetheless.

Originally Posted by Marvolo

99% of fantasy books are average, at best.

I can't reconcile this with your previous statement - either 99% are average, or most is "so poor". Which do you mean?

Originally Posted by Marvolo

When someone comes along that is very good at their craft, and wide received, naysayers always come up with thin reasons for not liking them. It just bothers me.

Why? You enjoy the books - others don't. If everyone liked the same sort of book, it would get extremely boring, and new writers would find it impossible to be original.

Originally Posted by Marvolo

Go read some more tripe, since apparently you've been trained to like it.

This tips over from discussion to insult. Make your points, by all means, but please don't insult my intelligence, or my taste built up from over 35 years of reading SF/F.

Originally Posted by Marvolo

(I realize this is an offensive rant. But hating Harry Potter? HOW DARE YOU!)

Marvolo

You will find that a reasoned, well-thought-out post on any subject here will get you far more respect that a rant, Marvolo. Most of your audience have read a lot of SF/F, and are not ignorant. Make your points by all means, but if you make them reasonably, you will get into discussion - and that's what most of us are here for!

(Edit) - this took a while to write, and you've posted in the meantime, answering one or two of the points - but I still think most of it relevant - and especially the last paragraph.

[j. d. worthington]

I have to agree. Marvolo -- you love the books. Good for you. I'm glad you enjoy them. But they are far from being in the best fantasy books written. I do tend to agree that the vast majority of modern fantasy is tripe. There are some brilliant exceptions out there, but a good deal of what is available is stereotypical and full of tiresome tropes and mediocre -- at best -- writing. However, this is true of a vast amount of modern writing -- period.

As for the insulting tone -- that would best be left elsewhere. Sorry, friend, but I've long since learned good writing from bad; I've been an omnivorous reader of sff for 43 years now... and have been reading the literary classics for that long, as well (I was introduced to Poe and Asimov at about the same time). So finding that J. K. Rowling falls somewhat short as a writer is by no means an indication of lack of taste; rather, it is evidence of wider and deeper experience, and a sharp critical eye. This is not to put down Rowling or her supporters, but merely to recognize that there are vast amounts of books that are enormously better written -- but then, that's true with darned near any popular writer you care to name, from any period. She is a popular writer, and has helped get many younger people into reading, who have later expanded far beyond her books into others, and neither of those is to be treated lightly. But she is far from being the best living writer, or even the best living fantasy writer, as a wider, less tradition-bound experience of fantasy (let alone literature in general) will show.