Harry Potter sucks

[The Pelagic Argosy]

Originally Posted by j. d. worthington

LOL! Oh, I needed that. Thanks!

Seriously, it's been a real meat-grinder of a few days, and that response in particular hit exactly the right note! I owe you one very big favor!

Have a good day, P.A.!

No prob.

[Marvolo]

Originally Posted by Dave

I realise this is a long thread and not many people are going to read it all, but we are now arguing points that have already been argued earlier. Isn't it time to close this? Only Time can tell if people in the year 2476 still read about Harry Potter and revere JK Rowling as one of the world's greatest literary geniuses.

I imagine the printed work will be long forgotten by the year 2476. JKR will be long forgotten after the particle accelerator creates miniature black holes underneath France this autumn. Once the planet begins to collapse in on itself debates like this won't matter much.

But anyway, I keep coming back to this thread because it is just so much fun. Arguing a losing point is therapeutic. J. D. wins every exchange, but hey, its fun to rile so many people up. It's like going over to the Goodkind threads (the fanboy ones) and peaking your head through the door and yelling, "Goodkind is a schizophrenic!" And then slamming the door and hiding. You can hear them getting the pitchforks out.

So, for one last time, just because its fun.

You're wrong.

Marvolo-

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by Marvolo

I imagine the printed work will be long forgotten by the year 2476. JKR will be long forgotten after the particle accelerator creates miniature black holes underneath France this autumn. Once the planet begins to collapse in on itself debates like this won't matter much.

But anyway, I keep coming back to this thread because it is just so much fun. Arguing a losing point is therapeutic. J. D. wins every exchange, but hey, its fun to rile so many people up. It's like going over to the Goodkind threads (the fanboy ones) and peaking your head through the door and yelling, "Goodkind is a schizophrenic!" And then slamming the door and hiding. You can hear them getting the pitchforks out.

So, for one last time, just because its fun.

You're wrong.

Marvolo-

I like!

Okay, seriously... on this we'll have to agree to disagree, I think. However, that's what makes hearing others' opinions so interesting -- especially when they really care about the points they're making.

[pyan]

Once again, I have to say it - this site should win an award for Most Civilised Forum on the 'Net!

[MyDeathSymphony]

jeez what is with peoples these days? i mean seriously...does nobody value other peoples' opinions anymore? anybody remember the saying "to each his own" ? comon' repeat after me... TO. EACH. HIS. OWN. again TO. EACH. HIS. OWN. very good!

[Lenny]

The problem is, should we still live by that, discussions such as this might become rather, well, boring.

[mirinda]

All I can say is they obviously don't suck becasue so many people like them. All we are really doing here is going around in circles on rather we like or don't like the books and films. And as we all can agree i think, likes and disliked are matters of opinion to which no matter how hard you argue them you'll never win because there will ALWAYS be someone who dissagrees with you. The entertainment industry is built on opinions the only way to decide who wins is to see who there are more of, more fans or more anti fans. Based on this statement you have to count Rowling as a winner as she had gained so much success with the books and films. We in this time can never know how succesful she'll be in the future 100 years from know, so i don't see the point in getting worked up over so trivial a matter as do they suck or not except for the purposes of a good conversation.

[Dave]

Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?

[mirinda]

the full half hour for sure.

[MyDeathSymphony]

Wow, talk about a very sophisticated conversation. A half hour hmmm? I suppose I missed all if it then.

[mirinda]

not necessarily, do you have anything good to add??

[Ellie]

Originally Posted by SpaceShip

I have purposely not read any HP books as I could then turn round and say that I hadn't pinched anything from her. Funnily enough, though, my son, who has read a couple of them, told me I should as it seems some of her stuff HAS crept into my writing - weird that! I reckon it must be a virus! However, she has done remarkably well and many of my friends read and re-read her stuff - so it can't be all bad! Reckon it's like everything else - we all have different tastes and some of us could eat chocolate till we burst while others hate the stuff (not met many of them, though). Hmm, talking about chocolate ...

Considering that quite abit of what she's written about is standard fantasy archtypes and myths it would be hard to keep it out of anyones writing- whether you've read the books or not.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the series quite abit- but the fact is that it's quite the standard Joseph Campbell plot. The hero orphaned, a wise old mentor, an evil foe, the comedy side kick. etc, throw in all the unicorns, castles and dragons, and tell me who hasn't written about them.
What I'm thinking is happening right now is that alot of children have been raised on Harry Potter and think that this is all straight from her own imagination, when in fact most of it is out there in the collective consicousness, but younger kids wouldn't know that. I'd even venture to day that older teens may not even know that.
I've seen kids on the internet post about how Neil gaimon ripped off JK with his Tim Hunter series, not realizing TH came first- because they don't look any farther than whats in front of them.
All the fantasy elements that have been floating around the genre for years have been conveniently packed into a series of books that have become a phenomenon, and quite frankly may have been the first introduction to fantasy that many receive, therefore they may think JK invented Unicorns, Wizard archetypes and wands.
To her credit though, a sorting hat, quick quill qoutes, moving photographs, the weasleys clock, pretty darn creative.
So I wouldn't worry too much about it- if you haven't read it, you can't have plageurised. Finsh your book, and then read them, if you feel like you have to do some editing, tackle it then. any editor worth there wait would also catch anything too close.
Good luck with your book.

[Marvolo]

To SpaceShip:

I believe any author should read as much as possible. If, partway through, you realize it is crap, discard it and note the reason it lost you. If someone has achieved groundbreaking success, read the book to find out why? Is it unabashed sensationalism, or is it true success at telling a wonderful story? Find out! I don't adhere to avoiding books due to worry they might creep into your style. If you avoid reading then you're style probably won't feel very fluid or carry the weight of experience.

People can sense BS. At least some can. If you're BS'ing your way through stuff because either you haven't read up in the genre, haven't researched the subject, or just haven't read enough books to understand what a fluid writing style contains then people's BS meters go off and your book goes down.

-Marvolo

[j. d. worthington]

Originally Posted by Marvolo

To SpaceShip:

I believe any author should read as much as possible. If, partway through, you realize it is crap, discard it and note the reason it lost you. If someone has achieved groundbreaking success, read the book to find out why? Is it unabashed sensationalism, or is it true success at telling a wonderful story? Find out! I don't adhere to avoiding books due to worry they might creep into your style. If you avoid reading then you're style probably won't feel very fluid or carry the weight of experience.

People can sense BS. At least some can. If you're BS'ing your way through stuff because either you haven't read up in the genre, haven't researched the subject, or just haven't read enough books to understand what a fluid writing style contains then people's BS meters go off and your book goes down.

-Marvolo

Very good points, Marvolo! Writer after writer after writer has made this point: for any writer, one of the most important things is to read, read, read. Read everything you can lay your hands on. And write, write, write. And live a life so that you've got experience to call on to inform the writing. (This particular paraphrase, by the way, is taken mostly from Dorothy C. Fontana, should anyone be interested.)

Similarities are likely to occur in any genre; and what is called "unconscious plagiarism" happens with even the best writers on occasion. As I recall, Lovecraft, for example, was very worried when he was writing his "The Whisperer in Darkness" (I believe that was the story in question, anyway)that the story was going to be too similar to a story by Algernon Blackwood that had come out recently -- a story which he hadn't yet had a chance to read. In the end, what few similarities they were were generic. Ellison has a fair amount to say about this, which he calls "literary feedback", in one of the introductions in his Dangerous Visions anthology. Avoid deliberately copying or, if you find yourself writing something that is very similar to something you've read, try to avoid that. Otherwise, just write....

[idioteque04]

Its obviously a good book otherwise it wouldnt have sold as much, may not be for the people who are hardcore but she can obviously write.