The Outrider Chronicles

[Culhwch]

Originally Posted by iansales

If Hawkshaw is not taking writing seriously, then why post the novel here and ask for critiques?

Firstly, I don't think this forum was ever set up specifically for people who are 'serious' about writing. As far as I'm concerned it's an open forum where anyone - amatuers, first-timers, those just having some fun, those who have been writing for years and years, those who seek publication - can come to talk about writing, share their writing, and get some feedback and advice. I've never seen a sign that says, 'If you don't take writing seriously, there's the door!' and if I did, I'd be awfully dissappointed.

Secondly, just because Hawkshaw's story doesn't match up to your notions of what has to be in a sf story, why does that automatically mean he's not taking it seriously? If you feel you are wasting your time critiquing the work of those who aren't serious, then don't. There's plenty more of us here who will.

I get the feeling you've missed the point of my post. I think I can safely say that the majority of the writers on here write because we love to write. Sure, getting published would be fantastic, and I'm sure we all harbour those dreams. In most of our cases it's not likely to happen - that's a harsh truth. But that isn't going to stop us writing. We write because we love to write. Even though sometimes I hate it so much I don't think I could possibly go on, I do because I love doing it and I couldn't imagine not doing it. And when I write, I write what I want to write, not what I think a publisher, or an agent, or an audience might or might not want to read. If I did that, I can only imagine the bland, souless prose I'd produce. And believe me, I'd prefer to write the stories I want to write and not get published, than write the stories I don't want to write, and still not get published.

As far as I'm concerned there's no formula to writing. You can't go 'Well, I'll take plot number thirty-two, blend it with viewpoint 3a, add a sfnal conceit, and, voila! A publishable novel.' Well, I can't any way. You might be able to, and good luck to you if that's the case.

Perhaps you should try telling this to editors. They won't buy a WWII-in-space story or novel. They'll be looking for the sfnal conceit that distinguishes the story. (Plus all the other stuff as well, of course: well-written prose, good characterisation, originality, a good story...)

Just out of curiosity - and in the interests of expanding our knowledge as aspiring writers - how or where did you come across this information? I've had no experience with the publishing industry myself, except for a little I picked up at uni. Is this a truism you've come across from a number of publishing houses in your time submitting?

[iansales]

My mistake. Perhaps I assumed too much in thinking people who posted here were seriously aiming for publication. Despite which... all I did was ask a simple question.

Of course there's no formula to writing. Although judging by many of the books on the shelves of book shops, some writers have a formula they like to stick to :-)

The sfnal conceit thing... It's common knowledge in sf fandom. I've heard and seen it mentioned and discussed numerous times. I wish I could point you in the direction of some article about it, but none spring to mind.

[Hawkshaw_245]

Originally Posted by iansales

You just made this up. It's completely meaningless. There are between 3 and 36 basic plots, depending on which authority you choose to follow. There are 5 main choices of narrative voice -- omniscient, third person loosely-coupled, third person tightly-coupled, first person, and the infrequently-done second person. There are an uncountable number of stylistic choices you can make when writing a story. In all cases, characters should be plausible, situations should be plausible, and settings should be plausible. That's what suspension of disbelief is all about.

You're confusing POV with the actual storytelling. Sorry, but you blew you're argument on that one.

As far as serious goes, I'm very serious. And I've already been published, too.
To think that you can break out the literary abacus and calculate the value of someones else's work from a brief description on a BB...now, that's amazing!!!

Originally Posted by iansales... That's why there's a slush pile. That's why lulu.com exists. A huge number of manuscripts never make it into print. Some of them are good.

And where are you getting all your info on the publishing industry, anyway? Are you privy to truck loads of unpublished masterpeices that the rest of civilization has been deprived of? It's quite possible that they're turning into compost because they're CRAP! Or perhaps the editors are too jaded or profit-oriented to recognize a good story.

No. I'm not offended in the least. Just curious where your vast array of authoritative knowledge came from.

[iansales]

Originally Posted by Hawkshaw_245

You're confusing POV with the actual storytelling. Sorry, but you blew you're argument on that one.

POV (yes, I should have used that phrase, and not "narrative voice") is just one aspect of storytelling. As is plotting, style, etc.... For written fiction, that is.

Originally Posted by Hawkshaw_245

As far as serious goes, I'm very serious. And I've already been published, too.

Serious is good. Where were you published?

Originally Posted by Hawkshaw_245

And where are you getting all your info on the publishing industry, anyway?

From speaking to fans, critics, editors, agents and writers... And reading around on the subject.

Originally Posted by Hawkshaw_245

Are you privy to truck loads of unpublished masterpeices that the rest of civilization has been deprived of? It's quite possible that they're turning into compost because they're CRAP! Or perhaps the editors are too jaded or profit-oriented to recognize a good story.

A lot of manuscripts will be rejected because they are not of publishable quality. That's a given. But others may well be rejected due to commercial considerations. An example, Ian Watson's British publisher turned down his collection The Great Escape, saying it was unlikely to sell. Golden Gryphon Press published it instead... and it was picked as one of the best books of 2002 by two US newspapers (from the Author's Notes in Watson's The Butterflies of Memory).

[Hawkshaw_245]

Personal info...

Vanic's wife, Annabel, adores classic literature and musical plays...like Les Miserables and Cats. He doesn't care for them at all, but lavishes gifts on her connected with such works.

Though he is an ardent coffee-drinker, he will down the occasional cup of chamomile tea -- her favorite -- as a reminder of her when he's on long deployments.

[Hawkshaw_245]

Some technical info...

Laians employ a variety of weaponry.

Their warships are often armed with an assortment of lasers, Gauss guns, and missile/torpedo launchers.

Nuclear weapons are sometimes used, for tactical strikes. Strategic nukes, however, have fallen out of favor.

The larger capital ships also are equipped with heavy particle beams.