1.08: They Keep Killing Suzie

[Dave]

Were you all waiting for me to post about this one??

Or has everyone turned it off??

Because I thought this one was the most interesting premise for a story of the whole series so far. And there was no sex in this, just talk about sex.

Using the Resurrection Gauntlet that former Torchwood member Suzie Costello originally had, the team are able to bring a number of murder vicitms back to life. However, these all have a link with the now-deceased Suzie, and the group have no choice but to bring her back. After the process goes wrong, and permanently keeps her alive, Suzie manipulates the naive Gwen into taking her to see her father.

If this episode was planned right from the series pilot I would give them extra kudos.

If you have stopped watching, seriously consider watching this one.

It still could have been better. At least Gwen wasn't shown to be a complete idiot again. She did seem to show a lot of empathy for someone who had already tried to kill her once though.

[PTeppic]

Saw the terrestrial repeat...

Great plot - apart from what Susie did after her substantial plotting to achieve what she did (through Gwen). You'd think, after going through all that she'd have more to do than go and visit the folks.

And as for Ianto's heavily prophetic final words - they seemed pretty certain for an organisation that meddles in chance and random. Why should logic come into play on the basis of normal clothing?

[pyan]

Originally Posted by PTeppic

Saw the terrestrial repeat...

Great plot - apart from what Susie did after her substantial plotting to achieve what she did (through Gwen). You'd think, after going through all that she'd have more to do than go and visit the folks.

And you think she'd have looked up the ferry times, as well!

Originally Posted by Dave

Were you all waiting for me to post about this one??

Of course we were, Dave. It wouldn't be the same without you!

[Ian8781]

If they continue making episodes like this, Torchwood can't go wrong!
The team working as "a team" on a case that is compelling, dramatic, emotional and driven - with no sex/expletive gimmicks.

Well - apart from the Ianto/Jack innuendo with the stopwatch!

FANTASTIC!

[Faceless Woman]

I hated it. Mostly for the massive plothole none of you picked up on, namely that Suzie couldn't have known permanant ressurection was possible. If she had, she wouldn't have been so obsessed with it, even in the last moments of her life.
They obviously didn't plan it. Worst episode yet (exept for the end bit, lol).

[Perpetual Man]

I quite enjoyed it. Although I have liked other episodes more, I actually felt that Torchwood was going somewhere with this episode.

The whole undercurrent of death, resurrection and of course bringing Captain Jack's apparent immortality back to the fore...

As a whole though, it seems to me, as though Torchwood has really divided the viewers. Some love episodes other hate etcetera...

[Coolhand]

Well I thought that-(Coolhand is grabbed, dragged away and soundly beaten to a pulp for breaking his promise not to comment on Torchwood anymore.)

[little smaug]

I'm beginning to suspect I'm watching a different programme from the rest of you, because I thought this was one of the worst episodes so far.

None of it made any kind of sense. I mean, Suzie constructed this whole plan so that just in case she died, she could come back. Am I missing something, or wouldn't it have been simpler to just not kill herself in the first place? And it was established that no other members of the team could use the glove, so the entire plan rested on Gwen being able to use it, which Suzie couldn't have known. I could go on with the impausibility of it all, but I won't.

Originally Posted by Ian8781

Well - apart from the Ianto/Jack innuendo with the stopwatch!

Ianto: Lots of things you can do with a stopwatch.
Jack: I'll send the others home early. See you in my office in ten.

Was that innuendo? I honestly couldn't decide if they were going to shag on Jack's desk or have an all-night Scalextric marathon.

[Faceless Woman]

You're watching the same program I am. I am in perfect agreement with every point, and then some.
And yes, it was definately an innuendo. (scalextrics - lol)

[Dave]

I don't see why Suzie could not have known that permanent resurrection was possible with the gaunlet. She knew more about it, and probably still knows more about it, that anyone else. I agree that it needs a leap of imagination to believe that she planned the whole thing as there are so may things that could have gone wrong with her plan.

It was established that no one else (other than Gwen) could use the gaunlet. Suzie barely knew Gwen, and to plan the whole thing on assumptions about what Gwen would do, and that she could use it, would be very risky. Also it was established that it only worked on the recently dead. Suzie had been dead for 3 months. That is another risk. Thirdly, her resurrection involved the use of both the gaunlet and the knife together, something she had not been shown to have tried out before. On the whole, I think I tend to agree with Faceless Woman and Little Smaug.

But this is still the kind of episode I want more of. Even full of plotholes it was better than the blatant sex and the badly staged shoot-outs. And I also expect the discussion about the plotholes will continue long after the one about the stopwatch.

Concerning the other stuff:
"There is something in the dark.... And its after YOU Jack Harkness".

Suzie didn't expect Jack to have survived, so how can she know something from the afterlife is after him, or does this mean something else?

And:
"Lots of things you can do with a stopwatch."
"I'll send the others home early. See you in my office in ten."

I've no idea what they are on about, but yes there is lots of online discussion of the Gay significance. Also laughing at the Scalextrics!

Finally, what if the gaunlet is a part of a whole suit of armour?

[Coolhand]

Because I can actually say something nice about this episode I am going to duck in quickly and jabber some words onto the forum.

I really liked the whole concept of bringing the dead back to life to question them. It’s a really neat idea, albeit one that has been used elsewhere before. But like I said, I liked it and it was quite well done. Quite chilling. I mean, imagine being the one lying on the slab, dragged out of death for sixty seconds whilst people shout questions at you…brrrrrr. Nightmare.

In defense of Suzie’s plan, I would say that if you realize that you ARE going to die, then even a resurrection plan that stands a low chance of working is better than no plan at all. It’s a gamble but hey, that’s death for you. (I mean yeah, as pointed out, she could have just not shot herself then but hey, it’s Torchwood, the normal rules of logical plotting do not appear to apply.)

In comparison to the rest of “Da Wood Krew”, Suzie is clearly the most cunning and competent and should clearly succeed Jack as leader. She could be the "Scorpius" of Torchwood.

The lines about something moving in the dark and coming to get Jack were very nice and I might actually keep watching this show to find out what that is. Though I suspect I will end up disappointed when the “thing” is unmasked.

I do like the line about “gloves coming in pairs.” (And I really love Dave’s idea of a suit of armor. )

I also hated loads of things in the ep for the reasons outlined by others, and for even more reasons that are as yet unmentioned but I thought I’d focus on the positive stuff. Ah. Yes. I feel like a better person now.

(Contented sigh. Coolhand is at peace with the world.)

[Dr.Jackson]

I have to say that despite some flaws in the logic, I actually enjoyed this episode. It was an awful lot better than the previous two disappointments.

I'm just hoping that, because the show is still finding its feet, it gets better as we get to the end of the series, and then tweak it for series 2.

Have we got any more suggestions for the stopwatch ref at the end? Speed filing perhaps? Who can eat a whole pizza quickest?
However, knowing the kind of stuff thats been thrown about of late, it will be some sex related nonsense.

[PTeppic]

In what must be a RTD dream, they've made Jack not just bi- but omni-sexual, so they're just hammering home the anything that breathes and gives consent. A little more than needed of course.

And how many other series haven't really found their feet until the second season? SG-1?

[Faceless Woman]

Sorry for the lateness, but I haven't bothered coming here for a while.
Suzie can't have known because in the scene where she dies, she's still talking about "Imagine if..." not "It can". She'd been practising, but she didn't really have the opertunity or technology (I know what I mean, but can't think of the word) to find out very much. It was all trial and error. And since she was the only zombie walking around, we can safely say she didn't know.

[Raven Dane]

Hi! Hope you don't mind a post from a newbie to the forum. I was puzzled by Suzie's remark to Gwen about there being nothing after death but darkness.Was this to be cruel to Gwen and her optimism and hope for an afterlife? For there was something. Suzie had awareness, she recognised the darkness and there was that mysterious something lurking in the darkness, coming for Jack. So there was plenty going on after her death!