Is Thomas Covenant the most frustrating "hero" ever?

[Karsa Orlong]

Originally Posted by Ash59

The thing i felt to be the most maddening thing about Tom was his refusal to treat The Land and his situation as being 'real'
No dream or hallucination is ever that logical or detailed, and he being something of an intellectual would know that. He would have accepted the reality of his situation by the time he first reached Mithil Stonedown.

lol, to be fair, the idea of being transported to some crazy new world is even more ridiculous than an unusually detailed, lucid dream, particularly when he's just been hit by a car and could've suffered some sort of brain damage

[bowerbird]

I have to agree with everyone who said they found Covenant to be frustrating. Sorry but the whole "recovering health" thing put my teeth on edge.

[Ash59]

Originally Posted by The Ace

I have always felt that neither Covenant nor Donaldson ever lived up to expectations.

When i first read 'Lord Fouls Bane' back in the late 'seventies, i had never heard of Stephen Donaldson, so i had no prior expectations.
From the first page to the last i was completely mesmerised. There had never been a 'hero' like Thomas Covenant - or if there had, then i had never encountered him.
I had to wait for each book to come out and it was bloody terrible ( I think they were released pretty much yearly-but each year seemed very, very long).
I remember one murky thursday morning in 1983 or thereabouts, mooching past my local bookshop (gone now,alas) and there, in the window the legend 'THE WAIT IS OVER' and it was announcing the arrival of 'White Gold Wielder'. It is my good fortune that the trousers i was wearing were - as a consequence of the somewhat chilly morning - unusually stout, and i made it home without too much disgrace becoming attached to the family name...
In Short, The Ace, I humbly beg to disagree.

[Foxbat]

Covenant (particularly in the first trilogy) feels crushed by the weight of expectation put upon him by others when all he wants to do is protect himself. The nature of his suffering drives him into a selfishness that threatens to overwhelm him.

Yes he can be frustrating at times but, for me, and because of his infuriating and selfish refusal to become a part of that world, he is one of the most human characters in Fantasy.

[Saltheart]

He is the most brilliant hero in fantasy, in my opinion. He is constantly struggling for his own needs and the needs of others, and he is characterized well - more realistic than many other fantasy books. He is the encompassment of both yin and yang.

[Silmarienne]

Let me start with a confession- I resisted reading the TC books since college days (when they were coming out) because I didn't want to read anything that my friends were saying was "like the Lord of the Rings", I figured I would be disappointed.

Like Karsa, I felt that reading through the trilogy was rewarding in the end. When I first read the 1st Chron., it seemed like I had gone through a string of long books/trilogies that didn't live up to the time invested. I felt TC rewarded my trust completely! I am rereading the 1st Chron currently in preparation for the 2nd Chron.

I'm also in a place where I really relate to Covenant even more than before. I too live in a country where just because I am from outside I am seen as better than others, and it is assumed that I can help people and even change their lives. But I am only human and under my skin I am as frail as they. So his darkness and frustration are even more real to me.

In a way, I think the frustration factor is part of the book's grip on the reader. You really, really WISH he would just.... before you know it you are sucked into his world, just as he gets sucked into the Land.

[Nicole]

Thomas Covenant was certainly my most frustrating hero! Not to say I didn't like him, just, ugh, some parts made me cringe! I love the books though, and Thomas Covenant. But the first time, I didn't know it I'd make it through, he frustrated me so much!

[mrsyetigoosecreature]

Is it not the object of any good book to stir feelings and muster comment and debate on its characters? Sure Covenant is a abject anti-hero who creates feelings of exasperation at his antics. But does this not make him more real? How would any of us respond to being transported to a fantasy Land in his condition? Is he not much more than a narrow, repetitious one dimensional character who might gladly embrace the reality of the Land and take on all comers! Would this type of person not be completly unable to use the power of the white gold and ultimately be unable to challange and defeat Foul? The paradox of Covenants unwillingness to accept the Land and his power and ultimate ability to harness it when facing Foul is central to the story. No flawed hero, no defeating Foul!! After all, he does take him on and defeat him which is surely heroic enough! I feel Covenant deeper persona makes for a much more exciting read. While there are many times you may want to slap him on the head with a big fish or scream "Get off your fat, lazy arse and do something you useless turd!!!!" but thats because your feelings for the land and its peoples are stirred so much. I hardly think its a bad thing for a book to stimulate these feelings.
My recommendation: Read them with gusto as I have many times.

[JDP]

I wasn't keen on Donaldson's writing style anyway - too flowery and wordy for me, I'm afraid. I got half way through book one of the first chronicles and had to stop. I personally found Covenant to be extremely frustrating; I couldn't find a single redeeming character trait in him. He was perpetually self-involved and didn't really seem to have much character to be involved with. I couldn't empathise with him at all. I can appreciate that some readers do like him, but I just don't see the attraction myself.

[mrsyetigoosecreature]

I suppose you don't have to love the guy. Empathising with him isn't absolutely necessary. I found that when I read the books that the other characters that I liked such as Saltheart and Mhoram made me really want Covenant to succeed and find the will inside himself to help those he grew to care about. You have to try to understand and accept what Covenant was in danger of losing if he let himself believe. He had seen the outcome of Leprosy when allowed to go unchecked. Yes he is a selfish, obstinate man but I think after reading all six books you do feel some measure of pity for him and some understanding of why he behaved the way he did. I think we just have too many preconceived notions of what makes a 'proper' lead character in a book and we are therefore less open to the complexities of someone like Covenant. He does have the selflessness and courage after all to make the ultimate sacrifice at the end of 'White Gold Wielder'

[JDP]

The problem that I find with Covenant is, because I can't empathise with him, I don't care whether he overcomes his internal struggles or not. The core of his personality seems to be:

a) he has leprosy.

b) he has been conjured into a fantasy world.

c) he has trouble coming to terms with these facts.

These are things that happened to him, through the plot; they should not be who he is. If he resolves these issues, there is nothing left. I feel he exists as a tool of the plot as opposed to a character in his own right. He is the embodiment of frailty and as such is a bit two-dimensional. I want a character to be human (or alien, or reptilian, or a continent-wide neural network or whatever) not just a plot device, otherwise I won't feel compelled to spend hours of my life 'watching' them (much the same reason as I don't watch Big Brother, I guess).

I wasn't frustrated by the fact that he wouldn't believe/constantly doubted himself/was stubborn and obstinate; I was frustrated because he was predictable. Perhaps if I'd have stuck through a few more of the books I'd have seen him flesh out a bit, but there wasn't anything there to convince me to put in that kind of effort.

To be honest, I find it really interesting that so many people (yep, I know there're a lot of you) feel very differently towards TC than I do. It's good to see that a genre that is sometimes considered very narrow (generally by people who have never read in it) can create such broad differences of opinion.

[tangaloomababe]

I have struggled to read this books, normally I enjoy a good fantasy novel, especially a series, gives you something to look forward to (the next book & the next one etc etc) but with Thomas Covenant I struggled. I started out enjoying the first book but just could not get into them after that. I found his negativity to embrase his potential new life annoying. Here he has been given a chance but fights it all them way. maybe one day I will try to read them again, maybe!!!!

[mrsyetigoosecreature]

By the way, yes he probably is the most frustrating 'hero' ever!!!!!!
Although I must admit I feel like knocking Peter Parker's teeth down his throat when he acts in a snivelling, wimpish manner at times during Spiderman and most people seem to love him! I still think the Covenent Chronicles are the best piece of fantasy after LOTR. It has a breath of imagination unrivelled in anything else I have read. Anyone recommend any others on a par?

[Karsa Orlong]

JDP: Having leprosy unfortunately does have to define who TC is, that's the whole point, if it stops defining who he is in his own mind even for a few minutes then he dies, period. His (initial) reaction to the land, in context with that leprosy, is also a necessary and thoroughly realistic one. Of course, Donaldson is the absolute master of developing characters, and Covenant evolves massively during the course of the series, but even his initial character to me shows Donaldson's intimate understanding of human psychology and is far from being a "tool to serve the storyline".

[Blind Prophet]

Before you damn Covenant you have to rmemeber that as suffering his leprosy, he has to remove any thoughts that do not focus on his well being as the numbness means that he can't feel any injuries he sustains. Consequently he can't afford to believe that the Land is real, because it could mean that he is going insane, and if he is then he could do anything in the blank spots where he is in the Land.
So it's not like he's being an ass for the sake of it, he can't afford to go trust it.

But yeh, he is annoying, even though i have to sympathise with him.