Greatest Warrior and Greatest Military Genius before 1900

[climacus]

How about a thread dedicated to this subject?

Let's try to set some criteria, like for Greatest Military Genius we could say how many battles he won against odds etc.

[Cloud]

you go first.

I was going to say Alexander the Great, but I have no idea how many battles he won.

[Paige Turner]

My vote goes to Cyrus.

Edit: Oh, stats… here's what Wikipedia says:

Cyrus the Great (Old Persian: Kuruš,[1] modern Persian: کوروش, Kourosh; ca. 576 or 590 BC — July 529 BC), also known as Cyrus II of Persia and Cyrus the Elder, was the founder of the Persian Empire under the Achaemenid dynasty. As leader of the Persian people in Anshan, he conquered the Medes and unified the two separate Iranian kingdoms; as the king of Persia, he reigned over the new empire from 559 BC until his death. The empire expanded under his rule, eventually conquering most of Southwest Asia and much of the Indian frontier to create the largest nation the world had yet seen.

[Nesacat]

My vote would be split between Saladin and Sun Tzu.

Saladin:
Saladin or Salah al-Din was a twelfth century Kurdish Muslim warrior from Tikrit, in present day northern Iraq. He founded the Ayyubid dynasty of Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Mecca Hejaz and Diyar Bakr. Saladin is renowned in both the Muslim and Christian worlds for leadership and military prowess tempered by his chivalry and merciful nature, during his war against the Crusaders. Salah ad-Din is an honorific title which translates to The Righteousness of the Faith from Arabic.

Despite his fierce struggle to the Christian incursion, Saladin achieved a great reputation in Europe as a chivalrous knight, so much so that there existed by the fourteenth century an epic poem about his exploits, and Dante included him among the virtuous pagan souls in Limbo. The noble Saladin appears in a sympathetic light in Sir Walter Scott's The Talisman (1825).

Sun Tzu:
He may not have actually fought in any battle but his writing revolutioned military strategy for all time.

The only surviving source on the life of Sun Tzu is the biography written in the 2nd century BC by the historian Sima Qian, who describes him as a general who lived in the state of Wu in the 6th century BC, and therefore a contemporary of one of the great Chinese thinkers of ancient times—Confucius. According to tradition, Sun Tzu was a member of the landless Chinese aristocracy, the shi, descendants of nobility who had lost their dukedoms during the consolidation of the Spring and Autumn Period. Unlike most shi, who were traveling academics, Sun Tzu worked as a mercenary.

According to tradition, King Helü of Wu hired Sun Tzu as a general approximately 512 BC after finishing his military treatise, the Bing Fa (The Art of War). After his hiring, the kingdom of Wu, previously considered a semi-barbaric state, went on to become the most powerful state of the period by conquering Chu, one of the most powerful states in the Spring and Autumn Period. Sun Tzu suddenly disappeared when King Helu finally conquered Chu. Therefore his date of death remained unknown.

The title Bing Fa can be translated as "military methods", "army procedures", or "martial arts". Around 298 BC, the historian Zhuang Zi, writing in the state of Zhao, recorded that Sun Tzu’s theory had been incorporated into the martial arts techniques of both offense and defense and of both armed and unarmed combat. His Bing Fa was the philosophical basis of what we now know as the Asian martial arts.

[Spartan27]

Hello All this is Spartan27....did you say the greatest warrior and greatest military genius....there are a few...but...my Spartan friend Leonidas (the lion) would be my bet for greatest warrior..as for greatest military genius, that goes to my northern conutryman...Alexander..without question.

[climacus]

One of my votes for greatest warrior is Richard the Lionheart. He took back Jaffa from Saladin with 55 men by attacking from the beach! He was outnumber 55 to a few thousand and within a few weeks he took back the city. What daring. . .

As far as military genius I am leaning toward Alexander and Napoleon. I am going to study the amount of victories and the odds and then post an answer.


Climacus

[Urien]

Before 1900.

Most of usual candidates are above. We are missing Ghenghis Khan and Julius Caeser.

For me, it's between Napoleon and Alexander. With Alexander probably shading it for winning more battles against the odds.

[Nesacat]

Hassan-i-Sabah, the man who gave the world assassins.

The name assassin is derived from either hasishin for the supposed influence of their attacks and disregard for their own lives in the process, or hassansin for their leader.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by andrew.v.spencer

Most of usual candidates are above. We are missing Ghenghis Khan and Julius Caeser.

That thought came to mind, too.

[Valko]

Originally Posted by andrew.v.spencer

Before 1900.

Most of usual candidates are above. We are missing Ghenghis Khan and Julius Caeser.

For me, it's between Napoleon and Alexander. With Alexander probably shading it for winning more battles against the odds.

Why has no one mentioned Nelson or the Duke of Wellington?

[HoopyFrood]

*twitch* Oh, god those words "Military Genius" *twitch* Flasback to last year with my A Level History Exam: "Was Napoleon a Military Genius?" ACK! *Flees from thread as quickly as possible*

[Spartan27]

I have not heard anyone proposing George Bush?..I wonder why?

[climacus]

Cause Bush is too busy on the "Internets" searching for "The Google."

[HoopyFrood]

Haha very true.

[Spartan27]

Hey Brian, I've noticed that you always say things like that thought came to my mind too, how about posting it first?