Zombie Vampire

[BookStop]

What happens to bodies of dead vampires? You know, when you plunge the wooden stake through their heart. Certainly they don't all explode or shrilvel into nothingness. Do their fangs disappear when they die? See, it all depends which vampire stories you follow. If a vampire can die and leave a body behind, then a necromancer could just raise them into zombietude, but I don't think they'd maintain vampirelike powers.

[Nesacat]

I was wondering that too BookStop. It would then be just a zombie presumably. The tales where the stake has been removed has the being returning as a vampire and not as a zombie. And if they went all the way and severed the head and cut out the heart, a necromancer might not be able to do much with the corpose at all.

It is quite a curious conumdrum. Much more so than the idea that a dead werewolf becomes a vampire. A zombie and vampire in legend would appear to be totally different and have entirely different requirements to survive. As j.d. said zombies were often mindless slaves to other more powerful beings. Vampires however are known for their intelligence and cunning. Vampires would regenerate but a zombie does not. One needs blood to survive but the other does not.

However, a zombie with the ability to regenerate or a vampire with no thirst for blood and the ability to walk abroad under the sun would be pretty powerful indeed.

[j. d. worthington]

For clarification's sake: The speculation about it being possible is just that: speculation, based on folklore. As for the cases of "zombification" -- those are still very much disputed, but what evidence we have to support them indicates that following: That by use of a mixture of things, including the rather potent neurotoxin tetrodotoxin, certain targeted people (very much like mob contracts) are caused to "die", to be put into such a low metabolic state that it often passes for death. Because of the way funerals were often held in Haiti and other of the islands, the "corpse" would often be left uncovered until very shortly before actual interment, therefore the oxygen deprivation would be of short duration. Once the funeral had been held, the person responsible for administering the toxin would remove the person (who had meantime recovered consciousness, or at least a closer-to-normal metabolic rate, thus requiring more oxygen), but by that time a certain amount of damage to the higher brain functions had set in, and they were thus actually living people, but with very stunted intellect, who could obey simple commands, but seldom showed any volition of their own. That, plus the tendency toward dazed expressions, evident fear of the person responsible (who often beat them to break them in, as well as to punish them for tasks done improperly), and the shuffling, uncertain gait, coupled with the villagers' actually having witnessed a funeral, led to the belief that these people were actually walking dead, rather than unfortunate victims of a particularly nasty form of malice/vengeance.

On vampires -- the theory of porphyria that was in vogue for a while has been seriously questioned as the cause of vampirism, yet still has some adherents. The connection, however, is extremely unlikely, even given a particular type of mental disorder predisposing such a person to "bloodlust" -- so the actual facts behind the origin of a belief in vampires is still unknown, albeit some of the things noted above in religious beliefs are likely to be a part of the more recent views of vampires (the vampire itself actually dates back at least to Babylon). However, there are documented cases of vampirism, including a serious outbreak in Rhode Island in the 1890s -- something Lovecraft, with his knowledge of R.I. history, made use of in both "The Shunned House" and The Case of Charles Dexter Ward. (This particular outbreak did indeed result in a corpse being exhumed and a stake driven through its heart and a beheading of the corpse. Anyone interested can look up the facts in microfilms of the newspapers of the time, or by checking out various sources on American -- or New England -- folklore traditions, such as Charles M. Skinner's Myths and Legends of Our Own Land, vol. 1, p. 77.) Were these supernatural beings? There's no evidence to support such, but vampiric attacks are a fact in many regions, throughout many ages, and certainly the belief in such a creature is deep-rooted and of long standing.

The problem is that, with most perceptions of these things being built around a Hollywood version, there is no consistency whatsoever -- which is fine, as far as storytelling goes; a writer should be able to mold them to his or her advantage. But when trying to answer a question like this, it's much more helpful to look at the historical cases rather than Hollywood's thin fictional version, as there is a consistency and logic to the folklore utterly lacking in the more recent views (say, post-1930).

[j. d. worthington]

For those who might like a short history of the most famous vampire (and a little background on the history of vampire tales leading up to Stoker's novel):

LiveScience.com - In Search of the Real Dracula

[Nesacat]

Spent the weekend checking with friends who read SFF and watch the movies to see if anyone had come across anything that might be said to be a zombie vampire and none of us could think of a real example in either a book or a movie.

Has anyone here got one?

[parilynn]

this is hypothetical.. what if a vampire comes in the wake of a disaster to see dying bodies all around and thinks, hey easy prey... drinks on them unknowingly one is a zombie... what happens to the vampire from drinking virus ridden blood?

[Who's Wee Dug]

Originally Posted by parilynn

this is hypothetical.. what if a vampire comes in the wake of a disaster to see dying bodies all around and thinks, hey easy prey... drinks on them unknowingly one is a zombie... what happens to the vampire from drinking virus ridden blood?

Nothing as they are immune to disease.

[Nesacat]

Is it a virus though that turns one into a zombie? If it is it could also be argued that it is a virus that turns one in a vampire and if that is the case it is conceivable that a cure of some sort could be found along with the ability to turn people into either with a pill or a jab.

[j. d. worthington]

It all depends on what source you go to. Some modern writers would claim it is a virus; but others, following more traditional sources, would claim it is something entirely supernatural.....

In the latter case, I doubt there'd be any consequence, as they are essentially dead bodies given a semblance of life by an unearthly (usually demonic or Satanic) force. In the former... it could be anything from nothing to all hell breaks loose (if you'll pardon the phrase....)

[parilynn]

Originally Posted by Who's Wee Dug

Nothing as they are immune to disease.

ok so what happens to the zombie then?

[KL Shelly]

This is gaming, not fiction, but World of Darkness (old) has the Samedi, which are a bunch of voodoo-influenced vampires: Samedi - World Of Darkness Wiki. I am not sure if they help or hurt your idea, but figured I would toss it into the ring in any case.

[parilynn]

Originally Posted by KL Shelly

This is gaming, not fiction, but World of Darkness (old) has the Samedi, which are a bunch of voodoo-influenced vampires:. I am not sure if they help or hurt your idea, but figured I would toss it into the ring in any case.

help! awesome... i like this.. wish I could find more info though... but thanks alot

[KL Shelly]

There is a Samedi "clanbook" from World of Darkness, which judging from other splatbooks for the setting is probably about 60 pages of info--copyrighted, of course, but it may spark some original ideas. Ten to one it's out of print, but you may be able to find it on E-Bay. I'd give you more info, but I play Mage and Changeling primarily, not Vampire, so I don't know that much about it.

[kyektulu]

I dont think it could work Zombies are, by definition the undead reanimated without any conciousness just driven by basic instincts.

Whereas Vamps, whilst they are also undead, they retain intellect... so I think that sums up my thoughts...

[dustinzgirl]

Aw I feel bad I missed this thread guys!

Hmm...

I don't know if one could be both a zombie and a vampire.

At the basics, zombies are reanimated dead, no higher brain functions other than some instinct/left over recognition memories, but they do crave flesh.

Vampires are soul-less living dead, higher brain/body functions, perfect memory, and crave blood.

So a zombie vampire would be a reanimated soul-less kinda smart kinda dumb flesh craving blood sucker.

In a princess dress.