Wagner!!!!

[Jaggy Jai]

Idiotism??? Have you ever tuned into any of the history channels, all they show are Nazis marching and conquering, then when in defeat they talk of fanatics that fight on until the end. Men wear the insignia of The Nazis in order to evoke some form of fear from others; using it as their colours. Perhaps none of the free, liberal minded folk on here think along such terms, I mean who would be stupid enough to yearn for domination over his fellow man? Ridiculous???

[Allegra]

Family feud - The battle for control of Wagner's controversial legacy:

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | Wagner's guardian

[Curt Chiarelli]

Oh those Wagners are at it again, continuing a tradition of transforming Bayreuth into an outtake of Family Feud, rendering the quality of the operas themselves rather irrelevant to the point. The big question for Wagnerians worldwide now is which is more entertaining: seeing who'll wrest control of the Wagner estate from whom, or how will Wolfgang muck-up the mise en scene of Parsifal again this season?

[Allegra]

Been listening to Tristan, found a couple of good video clips:

Tristan, Liebestod by Chicago Symphony Orchestra / Georg Solti :
YouTube - Richard Wagner Tristan und Isolde Solti.

Parsifal (Placido Domingo):
YouTube - Richard Wagner Parsifal.


Glorious

[Curt Chiarelli]

Nothing quite beats being in the audience during such iconic performances - but this is the next best thing!

Having spent the first 28 years of my life in Chicago I can tell you that I'm a Sir Georg Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra man to the core. Lily, you have no idea how this takes me back to that lost era of my life! Thank you!

The Domingo performance of Parsifal is absolutely incandescent. However, who's the wag who inserted that rather profane clip of The Seventh Seal at the end? It thoroughly disrupted the mood that had been so carefully built up. That was so out of line . . . .

[Allegra]

Yes that bit of insert is just down right rude and silly! I figured may be the poster wanted to make some sort of statement, but come on...

I have quite a few CDs of CSO's - I won't hear no one else playing Mahler's symphonies, their brass are simply the best!


Just remember once I came across a ridiculous Wagner CD cover:



I mean, what on earth were they thinking?

[Delvo]

It appears to be an allusion to a scene from the movie "Apocalypse Now", in which an American force attacks a Vietnamese village in helicopters while playing "The Ride of the Valkyries" on the helicopters' megaphones. (They say it scares the villagers even more, and laugh about how the villagers' being even more scared adds to the fun.) I don't think it's a screenshot, though, because the attack in the movie happened in full daylight, not dawn or dusk.

For most people other than orchestra music fans, that scene was the first context in which they were exposed to that piece of music, and it's what increased public awareness of the music enough to lead to its use in other "popular" contexts ever since then (such as an old Maxell audio tape commercial) and its inclusion in collections like Time-Life's "Classical Thunder" CD set.

[Mary Hoffman]

Ignorance all round on the part of the CD cover designers since "The Ride of the Valkyries" is an extract (or bleeding chunk) from Act Three of Die Valkure (second opera of the Ring Cycle) and Twilight of the Gods is the English version of the title of the fourth, Gotterdammerung. (I can't do umlauts in these posts, btw).

I love Wagner! And the anti-semitism is a red herring. Anyone who loves Wagner means the music not the man. Jaggy-Jai wanted to know what classical composers we all liked (and that is a correct use of the term, Delvo - everyone knew what he meant).

My favourites are: Monteverdi, Bach, Purcell, Mozart, Mahler, Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Prokofiev, Britten, and of those still alive, some Peter Maxwell Davies and Harrison Birtwistle, John Taverner, John Adams, Arvo Part, and most of the Estonians.

Individual favourite pieces are: Bach cello suites, Brahms violin sonatas, Purcell viol fantasias, Mozart's Italian operas, especially The Marriage of Figaro, Mahler's Liedes Eine Fahrenden Gesellen (sp?), but sung by a man and the 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 8th symphonies especially, Stravinsky's Apollo and Oedipus Rex (from his neoclassical period) and of course Rite of Spring, Firebird , Petroushka and Pulcinella, Oh and Symphony of Psalms and Les Noces, both of which I've sung in. (Hey, I guess I really like Big Igor at lot!)

Schoenberg's Verklarte Nacht and Pierrot Lunaire, Cesar Franck's violin sonata, Prokofiev's violin concertos and Romeo and Juliet ballet, Ravel's 2 piano concertos, Shostakovitch piano concertos and Fifith symphony, Britten's War Requiem, Peter Grimes, Missa Brevis, Song for St Cecilia - oh everything - except Owen Wingrave!

Maxwell Davies' Taverner, Taverner's song for Athene, Birtwistle's Gawain, John Adams' Harmonium, Nixon in China and almost anything by Part and the other Estonians. Heard Adams' latest "opera" last week - A Flowering Tree - really more of an oratorio and although the music was lovely the story and libretto were horribly poor.

Sure I've left out masses of composers and works. Singing in a choir for sixteen years really introduced me to lots of works I wouldn't have enjoyed so musch just listening to them, like Elgar's Dream of Gerontius, Tippett's A Child of Our Time, Walton's Belshazzar's Feast, Vaughn Williams' A Sea Synpmhony etc etc.

But there is just so much lovely stuff out there to go and grab with both hands that no-one should be nervous or put off. It's just like reading. You hear something you like and then look for other pieces by the same composer or other composers wiorking in that form amd before you know it you can say,I like violin sonatas better than pieces for oboe, or whatever.

And crucially, with regard to Wagner, you have to know whether you have the stamina to listen to a long work and also whether the subject matter appeals to you enough to make sure you know the libretto before you start. Since I love myths, I was fascinated by what he had done in combining the Volsungasaga with other, older material and read the Ring operas before I heard a note. Then I was lost.

And yes, it was the great Solti recording for Decca - still the most exciting, for my money.

Mary

[Allegra]

Mary, I'm so glad to see another classical music lover! Most of the composers you mentioned are also among my beloved, except Scheonberg, Britten and those ones alive. I tried to like Scheonberg but still don't quite get it except a couple of violin & piano chamber works. I love orchestral and piano works the most; some operas especially those of Puccini's. Wagner is brilliant though I found listening to his whole operas can be both time and emotionally consuming, so most of the times I choose to listen to his 'bloody chunks'. Apart from the composers you mentioned Chopin and Schubert are also dear to my heart.

Just as you said, classical music is like a huge library, there are so much great works one may need several lifetimes to hear them all!

[Curt Chiarelli]

Yes, Lily is right: it's good to see another member on the Chronic who really loves classical! Anyone care for Bartok?

[pyan]

I like the early string quartets (1-3), and the first piano concerto - but if I want to listen to this era, I much prefer RVW or Bax.

[Curt Chiarelli]

Originally Posted by pyan

I like the early string quartets (1-3), and the first piano concerto - but if I want to listen to this era, I much prefer RVW or Bax.

Yes, the string quartets give a wonderfully intimate portrait of Bartok, moreso than some of the bigger orchestral pieces (although love them too). And, not to mention, there's something naturally enchanting about the exotic Magyar rhythms and harmonies he employs!

And as for Ralphie boy - I adore his works. Have you ever heard his choral pieces? Far less well known to the general public than his symphonies, they're the cultural equivalent of buried treasure!

Bax - less so, although I do respect him as a great composer.

[pyan]

Originally Posted by Curt Chiarelli

Bax - less so, although I do respect him as a great composer.

Is that code for "Can't stand him!", Curt?

[Curt Chiarelli]

Originally Posted by pyan

Is that code for "Can't stand him!", Curt?

LOL! Actually no, Chris. It's Curtese for: "I only have one CD of his work, but I'm not compelled to buy more!"

Now, if I really didn't like his work I would have given it away to the first beggar I met on the street during my recent move!

[Mary Hoffman]

Ooh, yes, Bartok - shouldn't have left him out. The string quartets, yes, yes and the Concerto for Orchestra and Music for Strings Percussion and Celesta. But best of all Duke Bluebeard's Castle! The opening of the Fifth Door is absolutely spine-tingling!

RVW - well I mentioned the Sea Symphony which is a great piece though to terrible poems by Walt Whitman and I like The Lark Ascending (doesn't everyone?)

Haven't heard much Bax, but my husband is keen on him. I didn't much care for Tintagel but that's just a short tone poem so not fair to judge on.

I think the only classical composers I can't get to grips with are Handel and Scriabin!

Mary