Wormholes and time travel

[steve12553]

Originally Posted by Dave

I can believe that one day, some time in the future, science will allow me to grow gills, or invent oxy-gum that I can chew and breath underwater, but what I meant was, I think science is unlikely to invent a time travel machine that can travel to the past for the reason I gave. And that was a philosophical reason rather than a practical one.

Having faith in Science is basically having faith in the ability of the human race to develope something in the future. That's different than believing that a fact is true. A fact is either true or not true, I doesn't matter what you believe. Whether the future is certain or changable is philosophical (at least at this point in time) and subject to belief. Belief in Science and the uncertainty of the future is what drives these forums and keeps all of us thinking.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by steve12553

Having faith in Science is basically having faith in the ability of the human race to develope something in the future. That's different than believing that a fact is true. A fact is either true or not true, I doesn't matter what you believe.

I never disputed that, but I would add that Luminiferous aether was once believed to be true, and now it is not true. These working hypotheses about Wormholes and Time Travel are still being tested. We probably have a few million years left on this planet to investigate. It may be possible to find a Wormhole or a Cosmic String that can be travelled through (and back again) without the traveller being reduced to Neutronium, but until one is found it is purely speculation and conjecture.

Originally Posted by steve12553

Belief in Science and the uncertainty of the future is what drives these forums and keeps all of us thinking.

And long may it do so! Now I return you to the speculation and conjecture!

[Specfiction]

There are those things that are possible and those things that are not. The problem is that we don't know what they are.

Although Matt (Vissor) came up with a neat way to "open" the throat of two bacl-to-back black holes years ago, we still have the following issues:

1) We've never seen a black hole, we've only seen them inferred by things like gravitational lensing, etc...

2) We've never seen a wormhole even inferred--they may not exist.

3) We've never seen exotic matter in any form, only the inference of exotic matter effects between Casmir plates, and, of course the new interest in the cosmological constant. But all of this is Speculative (fiction?).

4) Hawking believes that feedback effects in time-loops prohibit any interaction with the past (as a boundary condition).

5) Causality, if it is a real principle, would be violated by time travel into the past.

But if we can get past all that, not to mention engineering on a scale tha people can't even imagine, then yes, time travel would be a blast...

[Harpo]

"Time-travel will never be invented because we can't see any time-travellers" goes the argument against.

But what if, instead of a time-machine being a machine which travels through time, it is a machine in which people can travel through time (within the operational lifespan of the machine).

This way, time-travellers will be able to travel into the past as far back as the day the first working time machine gets switched on.

Suppose that day is December 21st 2012 - when the Mayan Calendar says our concept of time will change.

I'm looking forward to it.

[carrie221]

Okay if we have the technology to build time machines maybe we would also have the technology to build invisability cloaks (or we could just borrow some from the wizarding world) then there could be poeple watching all these events without us seeing them.

[steve12553]

Originally Posted by carrie221

Okay if we have the technology to build time machines maybe we would also have the technology to build invisability cloaks (or we could just borrow some from the wizarding world) then there could be poeple watching all these events without us seeing them.

If I were to critique a story that used borrowing from the wizarding world out of the blue like that, I'd call it a cop out. But I not, so I won't.

[carrie221]

Originally Posted by steve12553

If I were to critique a story that used borrowing from the wizarding world out of the blue like that, I'd call it a cop out. But I not, so I won't.

Oh but I am not talking about a story... I am talking about reality

If Harry's cloak is an antique then the technology has to have been around for awhile so they could be watching all of us right now (Have to go now prof is leaving story land)

[Harpo]

another thought: suppose when JFK was shot there was a time-travelling tourist (for example) standing on the grassy knoll?
and wasn't there an unidentified mystery ship reported in the area when the Titanic sank?

[steve12553]

Originally Posted by Harpo

another thought: suppose when JFK was shot there was a time-travelling tourist (for example) standing on the grassy knoll?
and wasn't there an unidentified mystery ship reported in the area when the Titanic sank?

And maybe a few passenger in steerage who somehow managed to escape intime.

[carrie221]

Originally Posted by steve12553

And maybe a few passenger in steerage who somehow managed to escape intime.

That would be soooooo cool could you imagine getting to explore the past like that... wow

[Harpo]

crowds of time-tourists pretending to be the ones who didn't survive historical calamities? The Lost Tribes of Israel? The Mary Celeste?

[Memnoch]

Originally Posted by nemesis

If time travel were possible we would have met the future by now. The ability for humanity to invent time travel as fiction would have us believe is disproven by the conspicuous absence of time travellers.

We wouldn't be aware of time travel due to there ability to adjust history, if we met a traveler of time and space and we realised his identity then surely he would go back in time n stop him meeting us!! If ya get me? If history was altered also we wouldn't be aware due to everything adjusting from that point and us in the present would be oblivious!!!

Bill Gates is a Time Traveler I'm convinced, or the anti christ, or met a djinn as youngster and was granted a wish (obviously didn't get more than one as he would have improved his looks lol) !! (Sorry for the tangent guys)

[Specfiction]

Okay if we have the technology to build time machines maybe we would also have the technology to build invisability cloaks (or we could just borrow some from the wizarding world) then there could be poeple watching all these events without us seeing them.

Think about what is real, from your own (objective) experience. Think of the real lives of people in the "dark ages" and the lack of measurable progress they made by confusing superstition with reality. The world was flat, doctors bled patients to cure them, no body washed their hands before patients were treated, ships were little better than corks, navigation was a matter of luck.

Things like time machines are a different order of intellectual exercise from anything that we can imagine today (in a sober way). And the chances that such a thing is possible, even by intellects that are as far above people as we are above ants, is very small.

[Harpo]

in a future earth where time-travel is as common as car travel for us, they all know that we in 2006 had no way of knowing how to do it.
They also know the date that we learn how, and when that date comes most of us will be very very confused

[Specfiction]

Ponder this. I think we all become a little taken away with modern accomplishments, but in truth, they are very modest. Although we've been able to do some neat things with electronics, TV, computers, the Internet; we have not really achieved any of the hard things.

Energy production: like the Bronze Age before us, we mostly burn oil and coal. The nuclear energy we have is scarcely better than some sources naturally occurring, and our best yields are scarcely 3% and very dirty—to the point where we almost can’t use it. We're having a very hard time getting back to the moon and our rockets are better versions of what the Chinese created thousands of years ago.

Time travel, which is probably not possible, no matter how advanced a civilization is, would probably require energy on a planetary scale. If it were possible, and it probably isn't, it would not be a casual matter.