Something that bugs me about VOY and TNG - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Ian8781 · 7th October 2006, 05:14 PM

I was really offended on behalf of Jean-Luc Picard when I saw the beginning of Nemesis when he received orders from Admiral Janeway.

Picard has been in command of the Enterprise (The flagship no less) for over 15 years, and he was also in command of the Stargazer prior to his tour of duty on the Enterprise. He has commanded fleets of ships in battle and has oodles of experience in a variety of command situations.

Janeway's first command was Voyager and she did this job extremely well for seven years. She has also been absent from the Alpha Quadrant for some time.

Why is she an admiral and Picard still a captain?

I, Brian · 7th October 2006, 05:30 PM

Good question, and nice to see you joined up, Ian.

steve12553 · 8th October 2006, 02:37 AM

Remember the advice he got from Kirk in Generations about never giving up the Captain's job. Maybe he took that advice.

Ian8781 · 8th October 2006, 07:55 AM

Good thinking.

I still can't believe that an offer Admiralty has never been heard of (excluding alternate timelines). Riker was offered the captains chair on three different vessels before he accepted the Titan. Why can't someone recognise Picard's experience and achievements and offer him a promotion???

carrie221 · 8th October 2006, 06:46 PM

Maybe Captain Picard is happy on the Enterprise and wants to stay captain... he very well may have turned the promotions down.

pyan · 8th October 2006, 09:59 PM

Kirk was promoted to Admiral and then busted down back to Captain by court-martial, wasn't he? Perhaps Starfleet, unlike most military organizations, learn from their mistakes.
But, as Ian says:
'He has commanded fleets of ships in battle and has oodles of experience in a variety of command situations.'
Wouldn't that make Picard a Commodore at least?

Dave · 8th October 2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyanfaruk

Wouldn't that make Picard a Commodore at least?

Probably, but not many Commodores were shown since the Original Series, and the structure of Starfleet is still very unclear.

I also think that Starfleet still worry about Picard - will Locutus ever resuface again? - unfair, but a possibility!

carrie221 · 8th October 2006, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

I also think that Starfleet still worry about Picard - will Locutus ever resuface again? - unfair, but a possibility!

Good point, There did seem to be some of that fear in I think it was first contact or one of the other movies

rolav drol · 20th February 2007, 11:45 PM

Picard was offered a promotion to admiral once in the first season of TNG. He turned it down.

andrew.v.spencer · 20th February 2007, 11:56 PM

Picard was never promoted owing to his scandalous behaviour at Star Fleet cheese and wine parties.

Doggyforce · 19th March 2007, 02:56 AM

I dunno, maybe the star-trek universe we're seeing is some kind of quirky alternate timeline itself, where like in every other timeline, Jean-Luc is promoted to admiral after his first tour on the Enterprise-D. I just think that of all the quirky timelines they encountered, the one we're watching must be a pretty far-out place too, a dimension where Jean-Luc never gets promoted to admiral and Janeway, Janeway, for the love of god, gives him orders... what the hell is this timeline comming to???

(can I buy a transporer accident for my Televison???)

ray gower · 13th April 2007, 02:38 PM

Never had any problem with the difference in ranks for the film.

Promotion from Captain to Admiral is based on scores and vacancies.

If you are offered a promotion and refuse, then your promotion score is cancelled and you have to build it up from scratch (only more so as your age will start to have a negative effect at some point).

Picard declined a promotion at some point and never achieved a good enough score to qualify again.

The rank of Commodore was removed from the RN and USN lists in the mid/late fifties as it was simply not applicable any longer.
A Commodore (who may be a Captain but not a captain) would command a permanent battle squadron that does not contain a capital ship but does contain more than one officer with the rank of Captain e.g. a cruiser squadron.
Which broadly means that Picard never qualified for the rank.

You could of course quibble about whether Janeway holds the rank of Captain?
From all the bumpf on the net, Voyager is a destroyer class vessel, so would normally be captained by a Commander

The Ace · 13th April 2007, 02:53 PM

The greatest moment in Kirk's life was when he was busted to Captain. Maybe Starfleet took the point that a good field captain is wasted behind a desk and if Picard doesn't want promotion it shouldn't be forced upon him. He certainly didn't have a problem dealing with Janeway's senior rank.

Delvo · 13th April 2007, 03:25 PM

The popular theory at another forum is that Starfleet, upon reviewing her performance while her ship was lost, realized that Janeway was a horribly bad captain but that it would look bad to simply fire her upon her return home, so they promoted her to where they figured she could do the least damage.

The Ace · 13th April 2007, 04:28 PM

That's it. Thanks, Delvo.

7th October 2006, 05:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ian8781 Aaaaarrrrrhgh Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Clackmannanshire Posts: 38	Something that bugs me about VOY and TNG I was really offended on behalf of Jean-Luc Picard when I saw the beginning of Nemesis when he received orders from Admiral Janeway. Picard has been in command of the Enterprise (The flagship no less) for over 15 years, and he was also in command of the Stargazer prior to his tour of duty on the Enterprise. He has commanded fleets of ships in battle and has oodles of experience in a variety of command situations. Janeway's first command was Voyager and she did this job extremely well for seven years. She has also been absent from the Alpha Quadrant for some time. Why is she an admiral and Picard still a captain?

7th October 2006, 05:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
I, Brian Admin and Tea-boy Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UK: SCOTLAND: Posts: 5,354	Re: Something that bugs me about VOY and TNG Good question, and nice to see you joined up, Ian.

8th October 2006, 02:37 AM	#3 (permalink)
steve12553 The Enigma of Steel Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mississippi Posts: 839	Re: Something that bugs me about VOY and TNG Remember the advice he got from Kirk in Generations about never giving up the Captain's job. Maybe he took that advice.

8th October 2006, 07:55 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ian8781 Aaaaarrrrrhgh Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Clackmannanshire Posts: 38	Re: Something that bugs me about VOY and TNG Good thinking. I still can't believe that an offer Admiralty has never been heard of (excluding alternate timelines). Riker was offered the captains chair on three different vessels before he accepted the Titan. Why can't someone recognise Picard's experience and achievements and offer him a promotion???

8th October 2006, 06:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
carrie221 Darkness is my friend :) Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 711	Re: Something that bugs me about VOY and TNG Maybe Captain Picard is happy on the Enterprise and wants to stay captain... he very well may have turned the promotions down.

8th October 2006, 09:59 PM	#6 (permalink)
pyan Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hampshire Posts: 4,284	Re: Something that bugs me about VOY and TNG Kirk was promoted to Admiral and then busted down back to Captain by court-martial, wasn't he? Perhaps Starfleet, unlike most military organizations, learn from their mistakes. But, as Ian says: 'He has commanded fleets of ships in battle and has oodles of experience in a variety of command situations.' Wouldn't that make Picard a Commodore at least? Last edited by pyan; 8th October 2006 at 10:11 PM. Reason: speling

20th February 2007, 11:45 PM	#9 (permalink)
rolav drol Yes, I speak Klingon Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 5	Re: Something that bugs me about VOY and TNG Picard was offered a promotion to admiral once in the first season of TNG. He turned it down.

20th February 2007, 11:56 PM	#10 (permalink)
andrew.v.spencer Dreams of Midnight Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 673	Re: Something that bugs me about VOY and TNG Picard was never promoted owing to his scandalous behaviour at Star Fleet cheese and wine parties.

19th March 2007, 02:56 AM	#11 (permalink)
Doggyforce Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 13	Re: Something that bugs me about VOY and TNG I dunno, maybe the star-trek universe we're seeing is some kind of quirky alternate timeline itself, where like in every other timeline, Jean-Luc is promoted to admiral after his first tour on the Enterprise-D. I just think that of all the quirky timelines they encountered, the one we're watching must be a pretty far-out place too, a dimension where Jean-Luc never gets promoted to admiral and Janeway, Janeway, for the love of god, gives him orders... what the hell is this timeline comming to??? (can I buy a transporer accident for my Televison???)

13th April 2007, 02:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
ray gower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gwynedd Posts: 3,579	Re: Something that bugs me about VOY and TNG Never had any problem with the difference in ranks for the film. Promotion from Captain to Admiral is based on scores and vacancies. If you are offered a promotion and refuse, then your promotion score is cancelled and you have to build it up from scratch (only more so as your age will start to have a negative effect at some point). Picard declined a promotion at some point and never achieved a good enough score to qualify again. The rank of Commodore was removed from the RN and USN lists in the mid/late fifties as it was simply not applicable any longer. A Commodore (who may be a Captain but not a captain) would command a permanent battle squadron that does not contain a capital ship but does contain more than one officer with the rank of Captain e.g. a cruiser squadron. Which broadly means that Picard never qualified for the rank. You could of course quibble about whether Janeway holds the rank of Captain? From all the bumpf on the net, Voyager is a destroyer class vessel, so would normally be captained by a Commander

13th April 2007, 02:53 PM	#13 (permalink)
The Ace Scottish Roman Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Perth and Kinross Posts: 2,238	Re: Something that bugs me about VOY and TNG The greatest moment in Kirk's life was when he was busted to Captain. Maybe Starfleet took the point that a good field captain is wasted behind a desk and if Picard doesn't want promotion it shouldn't be forced upon him. He certainly didn't have a problem dealing with Janeway's senior rank.

13th April 2007, 03:25 PM	#14 (permalink)
Delvo Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA: Posts: 434	Re: Something that bugs me about VOY and TNG The popular theory at another forum is that Starfleet, upon reviewing her performance while her ship was lost, realized that Janeway was a horribly bad captain but that it would look bad to simply fire her upon her return home, so they promoted her to where they figured she could do the least damage.

13th April 2007, 04:28 PM	#15 (permalink)
The Ace Scottish Roman Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Perth and Kinross Posts: 2,238	Re: Something that bugs me about VOY and TNG That's it. Thanks, Delvo.