Snape

[Telperaca]

Well, at least it's not yellow!

Remember kids, never eat yellow snow!

[lou.mor432]

Pass me a sick bucket please.

Anyhoo, back to the topic. My sources tell me that there are more than a few shockers in the next book. A huge storyline involving Snape.... The mind boggles.

[Telperaca]

storyline involving Snape

I could have told you that!


And your 'sources' wouldn't happen to be a certain rumour mill at mugglenet?

As for Draco - do you think there's hope for him. I do. And I don't think I'm being naive.

[lou.mor432]

Naw. Mind I work for Asda! No hope for Malfoy. Scumbucket anyway!

[Telperaca]

::Hem Hem::


I think I'll also have to take Draco into my wing and save him from all the hate mail... While I'm at it, I might as well do some mischief making with him! ::Winks and smirks...::

[lou.mor432]

Euuuuuuuwwwwww. Not Malfoy. There isn't a God.

[Telperaca]

Am I going to give you nightmares??
Come on, ferrets are cute.
Hence the conversion... but after being dowm Crabbe/Goyle's pants... it mush have been scarred for life...

[lou.mor432]

Very true. I'm a big girl, I read Stephen King for fun. I can handle a few gory nightmares.

[Stormlight_USMC]

feels like I'm the only Snape supporter out there

originally posted by Telperaca

Whatever else he may be, Severus Snape is far from innocent. Otherwise, he couldn't be the most darkly fascinating character in the entire series. History has proven *using pompously didactic scholarly voice* that the most interesting characters are the ones who walk both the light and dark paths.

Take Star Wars. Luke? Charming, cool lightsaber and all, sure, but wishy washy and lame next to dashing, rough-and-able Han Solo.

The Count in The Count of Monte Cristo is so cool because his decade of undeserved misery and trial transforms him from an innocent, amicable captain into a scarred, cold, wrathful avenger - not evil, but at times dangerously close.

Snape probably does have his own agenda, but I think there are one or two points on which he is immovable.

....I trust Severus.

[goddess_of_hades]

Okay, I just finished reading all the previous posts, and I have a few things to say. First of all, Regulus is not older than Severus. He's two years younger, the same age as Narcissa. As a side note, Bellatrix is two years older, and Andromeda is the same age.

And now, this is something I wrote for the Severus/Lily ship on a discussion board, but I think most of it fits here as well, so...

Severus's name is really a big point here. It doesn't just mean harsh. Think about it; "Sever us." The seperation between good and evil, black and white. Severus symbolizes the gray area in between. We know he's old friends with Lucius, but we also know Lucius was in seventh year when Severus was only in first. So how much time, exactly, did they have to become friends? From what I can tell, with the Marauders and all, old friends come from only one place and that's Hogwarts, particularly when the person in question is so relatively young. (We couldn't assume that Dumbledore went to school with every one of his old friends, because he's had more time to make them.) I think one of the main points of why Severus at least appeared to be prejudiced against Lily and her kind was out of loyalty to Lucius, his only friend we know of besides Dumbledore. But that would be a lot of loyalty to stay that way when he only knew Lucius for a year, and Lucius probably wasn't the best of friends anyway. So how much stronger would his loyalty be to someone who actually did care and that he knew for a much longer time? Say, Dumbledore. But there's also Lily, and Lily is different. It is never even hinted that he and Lily were friends, only that she pitied him and tryed to protect him. Maybe if Lily had not bothered to protect him, but had bothered to get to know him, he would have been more accepting. Or maybe not, maybe he didn't want anyone at all protecting him, in which case she should have respected that and switched to background support.
Remus says Lily had a way of seeing good in the worst. Severus, from what I can tell, is a bit like Sydney Carton. Even though the Dark Lord is infinitely 'worse,' he probably sees himself as the ultimate depth to which one can fall. And if Lily sees good in that, he isn't going to very open to the suggestion. A little persistence and tact on Lily's part might have helped, but I'm not blaming her. The whole problem is that Severus was too different. Lily was just a young girl, and intelligent and mature though she might be, she couldn't be expected to carry the load Severus needed her to carry. That's why Severus had no friends and no one to protect him. No one was even mentally capable of being his friend. Still, if Lily hadn't been in Gryffindor, or Severus hadn't been in Slytherin, they might have grown together with a little less resentment in the middle and maybe one of them would come to understand the difference and discover a way to surmount it. So, again, we see the problems of House rivalry.
Having said that, what was it that made Lily keep trying to help him, no matter what? I think she was probably fascinated. A lot of us females are fascinated with the dark ones, and how much stronger must the attraction be when they are so alike? They're both smart, good at potions and with spells, and they both dislike the Marauders, though their dislike is very disimilar. I've already explained why Severus kept shutting her out, but it might also have something to do with the fact that Severus is a realist and a cynic, while Lily seems to be more of an optimist. Lily might think such a relation could work, but Severus never would.
I think this ship has a lot to do with Severus's actions particularly since I don't believe Severus owed James anything, much less a life debt. I think a life is surely the price for everything James had done and did in the following years. Lily is most likely the reason he protected Harry, and I say this knowing the explanation he gave Bellatrix. Do you really think he would turn to the "the Dark Lord's most faithful" and say something along the lines of, "Yes, Bellatrix, you're right. I really saved Harry's life because I was in love with his Muggle-born mother, who was killed in the Dark Lord's attempt on Harry's life, and you know he has his mother's eyes. That's why I rejoined the Order." Severus is cunning and intelligent. He probably made up everything he said in that scene the instant before he said it. So. That's why I ship Severus/Lily.
On another note and going back to what I said before, it's possible Lily loved Severus and he did not love her back because like I said, he did not find her "worthy." It is a bit of a paradox, seeing yourself as the worst, and yet finding someone supposedly "better" than you unworthy, but if you think about it a bit, it'll start to make sense.

And also a followup, answering some other people's comments.

I agree that Lily and Dumbledore were coming from the same place, but in Severus's eyes the situations were completely different and it's Severus's POV that really matters in this case. Even though on the inside they were exactly alike, the packaging was what Severus saw and what he reacted against. Lily may have meant exactly what Dumbledore did, but Severus didn't see that. He saw a Gryffindor girl who helped to publicly humiliate him (and if you don't believe me, you try to rescue a tough guy. Particularly if you're a girl.), who actually smiles at James's prank even as she tries to protect him. What I'm saying is that Lily had a life outside of Severus, and Severus had no social life to speak of. Severus would have expected Lily to commit a lot more of herself and her time to him and she just didn't understand that. I agree with you about Severus's character. It's amazing how wonderfully twisted he is. And it's also true that he was much more mature and intelligent than the other boys. Just take a look inside any classroom and you'll see what I mean. None of them would bother to study something as in-depth as Severus did, even if it interested them.

I think what you just said in that second-to-last paragraph is the bit I forgot to explain. All of my speculating is done pretty much from what Severus would see. Most of the problems he faces don't even really exist, it's just that he has completely convinced himself that this is so. Actually, far from being a result of his acting ability as I've heard some people say, I think it's the source of it. You can't really convince other people of something unless you believe it yourself. Personally, I think that this is the secret of Severus's natural Occlumens ability.

So, yes. That's what I have to say about Severus. Also, the Severus/Lily ship would explain why Lily's eyes are so important.

[Crazihors]

i see you all arguing whether Snape is good or evil....personally i don't think he's either - a more gutsy version of Wormtail, if you will.

He is bad, he was a slytherin! i think he's one of those people only interested in self-preservation, he changed very quickly from being a death eater to Dumbledore's side, and i think he only seemed reluctant to being a spy again - either that or he was scared of being fried. i think he has his own agenda...like Jack Sparrow only less piratey...he makes it up as he goes along, and overcomes any spanners in the works, so to speak

[Digger]

The way I see it, Snape must turn out to be one of the good guys, if only because he's so totally nasty, vindictive, sadistic (etc etc). He has absolutely no positives to his character, and I just don't see how he can be portrayed like that, and for it then to be a case of: "yes, he was a 100% force for evil all the way along". It'll be a more more powerful message if he is evil and horrible, but then turns out to have been doing what was right (especially if he didn't want to, or didn't actually agree with it).

[Tea is my copilot]

Dumbledore believed him, and if he turns out to be bad, Dumbledore turns out to be...well the euphemism would be naive.
I don't think Rowling would let that, because I feel that she got very attached to Dumbledore.

[bookaholic]

i think there is a more convincing argument that he's evil than good

[Crazihors]

Originally Posted by The Pelagic Argosy

I think the best evidence for the "Snape is good" theory is that Dumbledore had always said he trusted him.

Case closed.

Yeah, but he also trusted Wormtail, and we can all see how that one turned out