Slow-frozen People? Latest Research Supports Possibility Of Cryropreservation

[Whitestar]

In science fiction films like the classic Charlton Heston film, "Planet of the Apes" and the "Alien" movies, characters are placed in cryogenic chambers that stops aging when traveling vast distances in deep space, which would take centuries to cross. Plus, it also solves the problem of food shortage, not to mention, preventing the crew from going insane. In reality, cryogenics, or rather, cryosurgery has been used for patients that destroys abnormal or diseased tissue such as: scars, warts, and other skin imperfections. Plus, it has been used for treating prostate cancer and preserving sperm and embryos. However, its most controversial usage has been the application of freezing humans who are plagued with currently incurable diseases, in hopes of being revived within years or decades later once cures are available. But theres one major problem with this particular method: the human body doesn't take kindly at being frozen, that is, unlike sperm and embryos, it is far more complex, which tend to form ice crystals. As a result, these ice crystals tear and destroy delicate cell structures, organs, and tissues. But now, recent research has indicated that the entire human body could be cryopreserved without the formation of ice crystals.

Here is the link:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0620171022.htm

And here is the article:

Slow-frozen People? Latest Research Supports Possibility Of Cryropreservation

The latest research on water - still one of the least understood of all liquids despite a century of intensive study – seems to support the possibility that cells, tissues and even the entire human body could be cyropreserved without formation of damaging ice crystals, according to University of Helsinki researcher Anatoli Bogdan, Ph.D.

He conducted the study, scheduled for the July 6 issue of the ACS Journal of Physical B, one of 34 peer-review journals published by the American Chemical Society, the world's largest scientific society.

In medicine, cryopreservation involves preserving organs and tissues for transplantation or other uses. Only certain kinds of cells and tissues, including sperm and embryos, currently can be frozen and successfully rewarmed. A major problem hindering wider use of cyropreservation is formation of ice crystals, which damage cell structures.

Cryropreservation may be most familiar, however, as the controversial idea that humans, stricken with incurable diseases, might be frozen and then revived years or decades later when cures are available.

Bogdan's experiments involved a form of water termed "glassy water," or low-density amorphous ice (LDA), which is produced by slowly supercooling diluted aqueous droplets. LDA melts into highly viscous water (HVW). Bogdan reports that HVW is not a new form of water, as some scientists believed.

"That HVW is not a new form of water (i.e., normal and glassy water are thermodynamically connected) may have some interesting practical implications in cryobiology, medicine, and cryonics." Bogdan said.

"It may seem fantastic, but the fact that in aqueous solution, [the] water component can be slowly supercooled to the glassy state and warmed back without the crystallization implies that, in principle, if the suitable cyroprotectant is created, cells in plants and living matter could withstand a large supercooling and survive," Bogdan explained. In present cyropreservation, the cells being preserved are often damaged due to freezing of water either on cooling or subsequent warming to room temperature.

"Damage of the cells occurs due to the extra-cellular and intra-cellular ice formation which leads to dehydration and separation into the ice and concentrated unfrozen solution. If we could, by slow cooling/warming, supercool and then warm the cells without the crystallization of water then the cells would be undamaged."

The American Chemical Society -- the world's largest scientific society -- is a nonprofit organization chartered by the U.S. Congress and a global leader in providing access to related research through its multiple databases, peer-reviewed journals and scientific conferences. Its main offices are in Washington, D.C., and Columbus, Ohio.

Looks like this technology could be used for preventing the spread of disease and long-term space exploration, just like in the aforementioned science fiction films, eh?

Whitestar

[chrispenycate]

It does sound promising; but that "slow cooling, slow warming" requirement means you have to be dead before processing, warmed through then undeaded. That, plus the fact that the new water is "thermodynamically connected" (rather than biochemically interchangeable) with ordinary water, and the fact that experiments done with pure water have been extrapolated to include solutions lead me to supect that the first white mouse whiffling its way back to conciousness after a nice, cool rest is some way down the line (a frog perhaps closer? But they have a frog that can do that already, don't they?)
So, you get this guy, kill him, exchange all the water in his cells (not just in his blood, that'd be too easy for the new water, kill all his symbiotic bacteria at the same time (just so they don't get the wrong idea while he's stopped moving), slooowly cool him down to liquid nitrogen temperatures, and pack him in a freezer, well protected from cosmic rays (of course, he'll have some radioactive atoms in his body, so better not leave him more than a few centuries) Defrost, replace the highly viscous water with something better adapted to metabolism, reheat to blood temperature, and restart all the organs , presumably circulating oxygenated blood mechanically before it's all up to speed; it's not going to catch on. Now, if you could use alcohol as a crystal preventer, then I suspect you'd get some takers.

[j. d. worthington]

Yes... I was wondering how they'd get the solution to permeate the tissues properly, while removing all the "natural" water.... and what effect that solution itself would have on the chemical makeup of the cells and tissues, the various delicate chemical interactions between the various organs, etc. (especially the incredibly delicate biochemistry of the brain), and then how would they go about exchanging the viscous water for normal water in the tissues again? While it's intriguing, it'd be an unbelievably finicky and prolonged process, probably taking at least months, most likely years, for each individual. There's also the question of brain activity... personality, memory, etc. being a product of the activity of the brain... how would such a chemical change (not to mention the cessation itself) affect the personality, etc. of the person? Lots of room for stories here, but I don't see it working practically. I think that, like our search for artificial intelligence, we're going about it the wrong way. The most likely solution, I think, it a study of genetics, and eventual engineering involving certain aspects of reptilian/amphibian genetics, allowing the body (with some aid, naturally) to "hibernate" or go into semi-stasis, where the homeothermy can be retriggered at a later date, thus allowing a natural revival that the body has "memory" to handle.

[Dave]

This is not only a staple of science fiction stories, there are also quite a number of people hoping they can be revived in the future after death and who have already paid for themselves to be frozen.

Without an FTL drive, or cryogenics, the only alternative for us to leave the solar system are generational ships.

But I think you have already hit both nails on the head. Firstly, it seems the supercooling without freezing requires some kind of 'anti-freeze' (it mentioned aqueous solution). I also wonder what that chemical would do to the cells, even if you could circulate it throughout the body.

Secondly, these people are all dead! And frozen or not, no one, as far as I know, has ever succeeded in re-animating the dead, except for Victor Frankenstein!

Originally Posted by j. d. worthington

The most likely solution, I think, it a study of genetics, and eventual engineering involving certain aspects of reptilian/amphibian genetics, allowing the body (with some aid, naturally) to "hibernate" or go into semi-stasis, where the homeothermy can be retriggered at a later date, thus allowing a natural revival that the body has "memory" to handle.

That is something I've thought about. If other mammals can hibernate, the genes for it cannot be too exotic, it's just a case of mapping them and a little genetic engineering.

[chrispenycate]

When mammals hibernate their metabolism slows, their body temperature drops, and heart rate, respiration and the like slow way down, but the flame never goes out, and the temperature never drops to freezing, so the problem of cell wall damage doesn't enter the argument. I'm sure hedgehog or dormouse techniques could be adapted to humans, in a thermostatic cool room. (not our liquid nitrogen though) However, even if this gives us a hundred to one reduction, there's still got to be life support, they'll have to wake up a couple of times a year to eat and go to the lavatory - no, I suppose they'll mange that with tubes, as for coma patients. But the body is still aging, still losing muscle tone, and still at the mercy of any bacteria or whatever. A hundred year voyage (and, with any drive we could build right now that's a short journey; better hope that the time spent exploring the solar system developes better drives) would give the equivalent of a year in a coma; not the best preparation for a mission, particularly with the extra calcium loss due to microgravity.
Perhaps a Heinlein "New Frontiers" solution, permanent life support and a certain percentage hibernating at any time, while others exercise, study, check on the sleepers, and wake them up when it comes round to their turn; perhaps ten to one?
And I do like to think that the "aqueous solution" they cite is the guck inside a cell, most of which is water soluble. If not, personally I'll go for the "attempt to saturate all the cellsin my body with ethanol, which doesn't freeze till very cold. and doesn't crystallise when it freezes. (of course, the risk of surviving it are minimal, but you'll never notice you're dead)

[j. d. worthington]

One point to consider on the possibility I raised: If we do the work on understanding the genetic mechanisms for hibernation, especially with some of the reptiles and amphibia, such as the toad Chris mentioned above (and this is sheer speculation at this point) is it not possible we may find a way to expand the parameters of that to the point it at least is very close to true suspension? Granted, this would still not permit of freezing, I would imagine; but it may eliminate some of the other problems. However, Chris is right: anything short of outright freezing will mean that the muscles will atrophy if not exercised, and any exercise is going to mean raising the metabolic processes again, even if only slightly.

Again, though I hate to be so sceptical on this, generational ships seem the best bet for interstellar travel... and with that you have an entirely different can of worms, especially considering the inability of large (or even small) groups of people to get along well under confined conditions for any length of time. Some way to bleed off our natural aggressions is going to be necessary, and we are nowhere near a good enough understanding of psychology to do that.....

(When I use the term "confined space" I mean any feasible size ship. Let's face it, we have an entire planet, and we still can't get along!....)

[Whitestar]

Originally Posted by j. d. worthington

Yes... I was wondering how they'd get the solution to permeate the tissues properly, while removing all the "natural" water.... and what effect that solution itself would have on the chemical makeup of the cells and tissues, the various delicate chemical interactions between the various organs, etc. (especially the incredibly delicate biochemistry of the brain), and then how would they go about exchanging the viscous water for normal water in the tissues again? While it's intriguing, it'd be an unbelievably finicky and prolonged process, probably taking at least months, most likely years, for each individual. There's also the question of brain activity... personality, memory, etc. being a product of the activity of the brain... how would such a chemical change (not to mention the cessation itself) affect the personality, etc. of the person? Lots of room for stories here, but I don't see it working practically. I think that, like our search for artificial intelligence, we're going about it the wrong way. The most likely solution, I think, it a study of genetics, and eventual engineering involving certain aspects of reptilian/amphibian genetics, allowing the body (with some aid, naturally) to "hibernate" or go into semi-stasis, where the homeothermy can be retriggered at a later date, thus allowing a natural revival that the body has "memory" to handle.

Hibernation can been induce artifically, there's no need for genetic engineering.

See:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...p?newsid=23290

Whitestar

[j. d. worthington]

Thanks for that information, Whitestar... something of which I was obviously unaware, and quite fascinating. And, yes, it opens new possibilities in this. However, I still wonder about long-term hibernation, such as would be necessary for such space voyages. Surely the effects of that long a sleep are going to be detrimental to tissues without some compensating factor? And even if not... the distances and time intervals necessary would mean that the passengers are likely to be extremely old (at least) when they arrive at any habitable planet, unless we really do find some way of circumventing the c barrier. I still wonder if, in the long run, experimenting with genetic engineering, studying the mechanisms of other terrestrial life for ways to overcome these problems, might not provide the key to a way around this aspect of hibernation, or even of cryopreservation. Just a thought; but it may be we'll need several widely different disciplines working together on this problem before we crack it.