28.11: Fear Her - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Dave · 25th June 2006, 03:23 AM

London 2012, and the Doctor and Rose set off to see the Olympics, only to find terror in the most ordinary place.

Quote:

from SFX

“Fear Her” is written by Matthew Graham, the talented writer behind Life on Mars. And it’s directed by Euros Lyn, undoubtedly the best director on the new series of Doctor Who. So it’s doubly disappointing that it just doesn’t work. After the audience-dividing “Love & Monsters”, this episode feels terribly, well... bland.

I have to agree with that. I would have expected something a little more special from that writer/director combination.

Quote:

from Wikipedia

When the TARDIS lands in 2012, the Doctor plans to show Rose the London Olympics. But ordinary children are vanishing, seemingly into thin air, whilst a mother living in a seemingly ordinary British household is trying to hide her daughter's unnatural powers from the world. Why has the girl got drawings of the missing children on her bedroom walls? What's lurking in the cupboard? Can the Doctor defeat the evil nestled in the heart of London?

The thing in the cupboard was not explained enough for me. I am videoing them and watching them late at night, but it looked like the Satan from the pit to me which confused me. Was it supposed to be her dad? Does she have some natural ability to conjure up this thing in her cupboard? I thought her powers came from the being inside her which had left by the point in the story that it came out of the wardrobe.

Quote:

from Digital Spy Forums

What u guys think the thing in the wardrobe is?

Maybe Tom Cruise and R.Kelly if RTD borrows from an episode of South Park, or if it goes far back enough Narnia.
No, kids are in this one, so it must be Michael Jackson who's in the closet!

Quote:

from SFX

Once more, there’s more than a hint of Sapphire and Steel about this story (indeed, the very same episode that “The Idiot’s Lantern” homaged!) and anyone who’s seen the movie Paperhouse will experience powerful deja vu.

I'm not enough of a Sapphire and Steel fan to remember individual episodes, and I don't think I've seen Paperhouse, but I do vaguely remember something where pencil drawn squiggles became animated. Can anyone enlighten me to what they are on about here?

In the 15 April edition of the Radio Times, Russell T. Davies reported that "It's a bit like a Twilight Zone tale of an ordinary family", and compared the set-up to the film Edward Scissorhands. Now I can see that, it did feel like a modern version of the Twilight Zone. David Tennant described this episode as being like "The Exorcist meets Brookside". The street was very boringly normal.

Quote:

from SFX

The story has its moments - an argument about missing kids with echoes of tabloid-fuelled paedophile panic; an intriguing mention of the Doctor’s family; a punch-the-air finale for the Doctor (if you carry a torch for David Tennant, you’ll love it!). But it's very telling that the highlight of the episode is the final moment, and an ominous exchange of dialogue that sets us up nicely for the big two-part season finale...

My favourite moment would be the start when the TARDIS materialises between two containers and the Doctor cannot open the door, so has to rotate it 90°. And I also spotted the "I was a Dad" part - not that astounding if, as we already know, he is a Granddad! I also spotted that the episode took place in "Dame Kelly Holmes Close" and the poster advertising Shayne Ward's Greatest Hits. Apparently there was also a 2012 car registration, but also a few nits detailed on Wikipedia.

I know obcooke hates spoilers, but this show continues to spoil itself whatever we do. Even if you avoid the news in every Tabloid newspaper, it has now left several suggestions to what is going to happen at the end of this series. The dialogue at end of this episode makes it especially clear.

PTeppic · 25th June 2006, 07:18 AM

I think by the time the episode finished (i.e. after the creature had left the girl's body and they were being terrorised in the house) I got what the thing in the wardrobe was... an image of her abusive dad that was being partially reanimated by the creature. She had done loads of drawings, only half a dozen of which were live things sucked onto paper. The rest must have been either imaginary or already dead (like her dad). The problem came when the creature reanimated all the paper drawings when it left her... including the overly terrifying half-remembered image of her dad...

I certainly noticed an 09 number plate, didn't notice anything more modern.

And LOVED the TARDIS having to "re-park"

I thought "There's a storm coming" in the dialogue was indicative of the Doctor's ability to detect problems in space-time, but was in itself quite vague.

The next show footage, of course, was entirely explicit...

obcooke · 26th June 2006, 03:21 AM

Okay, sorry have to say it- Worst episode ever.
(As the Simpson's "Comic Book Guy" would say.)

It did remind me of The Twilight Zone, specificially the episode about the little boy who could do anything - you know the one, it was in the original series and the movie and the new series and a Simpson's Halloween Episode. The fear of the mother towards her child was especially similar considering that in The Twilight Zone, the little boy (played by "Lost in Space" Billy Mumy) would punish people by making them disappear.

Not much of a special effects story. Very cheaply done with the boy and cat disappearing without any SFX except for a quick animated drawing effect. The squiggly line was kinda cool although like most things in this story you could see it coming a mile away.

I did think that Rose would be the one to end up in the drawing, so The Doctor could do his weekly gnashing of teeth over Rose's peril.

[Originally posted by Dave: The thing in the cupboard was not explained enough for me.]

Nothing was much explained. I guess the closet monster was Cleo's nightmare fears of her father made living by the space creature.

How only the Olympic Torch could re-engergize the space pod wasn't explained either. At the end of the ridiculous scene on the torch route the road worker asks Rose what she did and Rose admits she doesn't know. That pretty much sums up this whole story - a confusing mess of themes and ideas without a unifying plot.

Rose yelling to the space pod to soak up the love - is that what people feel along the torch route feel, love? I've seen the torch in Atlanta, GA, USA and I don't remember that. It was a little too much like clapping your hands to save Tinkerbell. Sometimes it seems they don't know if they're a show for kids or for adults - so instead of walking a middle line they throw in stuff for each.

And why wasn't Rose able to figure out why The Doctor didn't reappear on the street when it was obvious that people returned from the place where they had disappeared and The Doctor disappeared down by the container yard?

And if Cleo could make The Doctor and the TARDIS disappear, why didn't the stadium disappear with the fans? - oh, right, no budget for SFX.

A vague, sloppy and entirely unsatisfying episode that will quickly be forgotten. In contrast to last season when the stories got richer in plot and characterization this season seems to be winding down before its finished.

NO SPOILERS PLEASE

I may be talking to myself, but if you know what's about to happen please don't say anything. I am going to speculate based solely on what I've seen in the show so far.

The themes are

- something's coming (a different Oncoming-Storm apparently).

- Rose and The Doctor may be coming to real strife between them.

- The Doctor has promised that Rose won't come to the same end as the other companions. I hope he included Adric in that - and if you don't know who he is, shame on you.

I further hope that they doesn't steal a Buffy theme and make one of them turn into the evil bad guy that has to be defeated, but that would fit the bill.

OH, well, there's no where to go from here but up, right? RIGHT?

little smaug · 26th June 2006, 08:05 PM

On first watching this episode, I liked it very much. It's simple, sweet, and there's some great dialogue. On second viewing, there's too much sentimentality, and too many niggly things that didn't make sense or were left hanging without an explanation.

I absolutely loved two moments - having to re-park the TARDIS (i bet that's happened before), and the Doctor casually dropping into conversation the fact that he was a father (especially Rose's face at that news). It could have been the worst episode ever, and those snippets would still have brought it right back up.

I did like the idea of a child-like alien taking over a human child. In many ways, it's the same theme as The Empty Child - the power of a superior being coupled with a child's need to be loved. I also liked the idea of nightmares coming to life, though I think the nightmare-dad idea would have worked better if the threat had remained unseen. After all, an imagined danger is always scarier than a realised one.

Quote:

Originally posted by obcooke - The Doctor has promised that Rose won't come to the same end as the other companions. I hope he included Adric in that - and if you don't know who he is, shame on you.

Really? I was rather hoping he wasn't including Adric in that... but then again I hate Rose.

Quote:

Originally posted by obcooke I further hope that they doesn't steal a Buffy theme and make one of them turn into the evil bad guy that has to be defeated, but that would fit the bill.

I saw a lot of Buffy in last series' finale - Rose becoming the TARDIS=Willow becoming the magic, the transference of power from Rose to the Doctor=transference of powers from Doyle to Cordelia, etc - but maybe I was only seeing that because I wanted to. But I think they are going to have to pull something pretty big out of the bag to top Parting of the Ways, so anything is possible.

Dave · 27th June 2006, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by obcooke
Sometimes it seems they don't know if they're a show for kids or for adults - so instead of walking a middle line they throw in stuff for each.

Well, I asked my 12 year old son what he had thought of it and to my amazement he thought it was one of the best. I think both the simple story and the young girl appeal to children. They don't always follow the details in the story anyway and certainly don't see the huge plotholes that we adults do.

Quote:

Originally posted by obcooke
NO SPOILERS PLEASE

I may be talking to myself, but if you know what's about to happen please don't say anything. I am going to speculate based solely on what I've seen in the show so far.

The themes are

- something's coming (a different Oncoming-Storm apparently).

- Rose and The Doctor may be coming to real strife between them.

- The Doctor has promised that Rose won't come to the same end as the other companions. I hope he included Adric in that - and if you don't know who he is, shame on you.

I've obviously read which actors are signed up for Season 3 and which are not, but if you only want to speculate based solely on what we have seen in the show so far, you seem to have forgotten that Satan in the Pit twice mentioned that Rose "will die in battle" in both those episodes.

PTeppic · 27th June 2006, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
but if you only want to speculate based solely on what we have seen in the show so far

In which case you'd also have to assume that Torchwood will feature, in its even-more-so-than BadWolf appearance in almost every episode...

obcooke · 27th June 2006, 11:13 PM

[Originally posted by Dave: Well, I asked my 12 year old son what he had thought of it and to my amazement he thought it was one of the best.]

You know, I'm not really surprised at that for the very reasons you mention. But it is strangely schizoid for a crew to do a "children's" show the week after doing a winking reference to oral sex.

(My favorite lines in a children's show that were meant for adults, Batman, The Animated Series:

The villianess has disguised herself as a policewoman to sneak into Police HQ.

Detective: You look familiar.
Villianess: Oh, I served you a subpoena one time.
Detective: I don't remember that.
Villianess: Well, it was a very small subpeona.)

==========================

[Originally posted by Dave: ...you seem to have forgotten that Satan in the Pit twice mentioned that Rose "will die in battle" in both those episodes.]

You know, I thought you had me there for a minute. 'Cause, I thought, hey, he's right, I remember that now.

But here's the thing... There are several reasons why I forgot about that - it was a medoicre episode, easily forgotten; Satan is the Great Deciever, so I didn't put a lot of stock in what he was saying anyway; and then there's what he actually said...

---

At first he says, "You will die here, all of you." - including Rose and The Doctor, presumably.

---

A couple of minutes later this dialogue takes place:

SATAN: "And the lost girl, so far away from home. The valient child, who will die in battle so very soon."

ROSE: "So what does that mean?"

DOCTOR: "Rose, don't listen."

ROSE: "So what does that mean?"

SATAN: "You will die and I will live."

---

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of his precognative skills, is it? I mean, four statements and two of them are clearly wrong and the one about Rose being far from home doesn't exactly take a Swami when you're standing on a planet orbiting a black hole. He does make telling statements about the other crew, but he gets the who lives and who dies future all wrong.

It's not out of the realm to interpret that he thought Rose was going to be killed by the Ood.

I agree that the writer's may have slipped in some foreshadowing here, but it's hard to be sure when the creature is so wrong about everything else.

==========================

[Originally posted by PTeppic: ...you'd also have to assume that Torchwood will feature.]

Agreed, but except for Queen Victoria's dire warning that Torchwood would prepare for The Doctor's return (he certainly didn't take his banishment very seriously) we don't really know very much more, so its hard to make predictions - in that Torchwood is a lot like Bad Wolf again.

But it's strange that if Torchwood has been waiting for The Doctor since Victorian times that when The Doctor reappeared he was escorted to 10 Downing Street and depended on for advice. Torchwood wasn't even mentioned - it must have been in that red folder that made Harriet Jones' eyes widen.

little smaug · 28th June 2006, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by obcooke But it's strange that if Torchwood has been waiting for The Doctor since Victorian times that when The Doctor reappeared he was escorted to 10 Downing Street and depended on for advice. Torchwood wasn't even mentioned - it must have been in that red folder that made Harriet Jones' eyes widen.

I thought that Torchwood was still being built at that point? I'm sure that in The Christmas Invasion, it was mentioned that Torchwood had only just been finished, or was still in development. At least that's the impression I got.

Dave · 28th June 2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by little smaug
I thought that Torchwood was still being built at that point? I'm sure that in The Christmas Invasion, it was mentioned that Torchwood had only just been finished, or was still in development. At least that's the impression I got.

I think that was the weapon they were referring to. The Torchwood Institute was shown to be named for Torchwood House in Scotland where the Doctor and Rose stayed with Queen Victoria. So, some kind of 'royal' society was created back then.

In "Bad Wolf" one of the quiz answers was that the Great Cobalt Pyramid was built on the ruins of the famous Old Earth Torchwood Institute. To be a famous Old Earth Institute would require it to something significant even if secret. To give examples, ordinary people probably had never heard of the Star Chamber, or the KGB, or the Special Operations Executive at the time that they were most powerful or active, but certainly heard of them later.

What does puzzle me is why the Doctor never came into contact with the Torchwood Institute during his years working for UNIT. Wasn't it a UNIT man who mentioned it during 'The Christmas Invasion'?

I'm sure all will be explained, including why Jack Harkness is involved with them. Is that a spoiler? If so, it's a very badly kept secret.

obcooke · 29th June 2006, 12:05 AM

Okay, I think I may have an answer. It's probably not the Official Dr. Who answer, but I think it works.

I hope I can explain it clearly.

We know history can change and only once did flying monkeys try to destroy the Earth because history changed.

We know that despite the potential to change history any way he likes, The Doctor and his companions pretty much live their lives linearly. They don't go back and do "do-overs" to correct mistakes.

The Doctor is sad when Reinette dies even though she has been dead for hundreds, if not billions, of years to him. Why doesn't he just use the TARDIS to visit her? Because of his self-imposed rule to live his life linearly.

So if we think about it linearly - perhaps Torchwood wasn't dedicated to preparing for The Doctor's return or perhaps it wasn't even created by Queen Victoria UNTIL the "Tooth & Claw" episode. We know that The Doctor wasn't banished from the United Kingdom UNTIL Queen V did it.

Staying linear, before she proclaimed his banishment The Doctor and his previous incarnations were not under its sway. Others who may have been aware that in some point in history she banished him might act as if he were prohibited, but The Doctor would not be flaunting her authority UNTIL she said it to him, regardless of the date of that proclaimation. From that point on, in his personal time-line, he is banished from the UK even if he visits it in prehistoric time.

SO, what if, follow me here.. Torchwood wasn't created until that spaceship crashed to Earth, according to PM Jones, 10 years before the Christmas Invasion or about 1996. So it wouldn't have existed in the 1970's. Then after Queen V got a bee in her bonnet, Torchwood's history changed? And now, its an old established institution with an old mission statement?

If that's the case, maybe The Doctor since then, hasn't raised enough of a fuss to get noticed on a national level and attract Torchwood's attention - yet. Maybe the next time red flashing lights go off at the mention of The Doctor, it won't be to invite him to Downing Street.

I don't think that the writers will go that way, but it would be an explaination for some of the anamolies created by recent episodes.

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25th June 2006, 07:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
PTeppic Reetou Diplomatic Corp Join Date: May 2001 Location: North-west UK Posts: 3,086	I think by the time the episode finished (i.e. after the creature had left the girl's body and they were being terrorised in the house) I got what the thing in the wardrobe was... an image of her abusive dad that was being partially reanimated by the creature. She had done loads of drawings, only half a dozen of which were live things sucked onto paper. The rest must have been either imaginary or already dead (like her dad). The problem came when the creature reanimated all the paper drawings when it left her... including the overly terrifying half-remembered image of her dad... I certainly noticed an 09 number plate, didn't notice anything more modern. And LOVED the TARDIS having to "re-park" I thought "There's a storm coming" in the dialogue was indicative of the Doctor's ability to detect problems in space-time, but was in itself quite vague. The next show footage, of course, was entirely explicit...

26th June 2006, 03:21 AM	#3 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	Okay, sorry have to say it- Worst episode ever. (As the Simpson's "Comic Book Guy" would say.) It did remind me of The Twilight Zone, specificially the episode about the little boy who could do anything - you know the one, it was in the original series and the movie and the new series and a Simpson's Halloween Episode. The fear of the mother towards her child was especially similar considering that in The Twilight Zone, the little boy (played by "Lost in Space" Billy Mumy) would punish people by making them disappear. Not much of a special effects story. Very cheaply done with the boy and cat disappearing without any SFX except for a quick animated drawing effect. The squiggly line was kinda cool although like most things in this story you could see it coming a mile away. I did think that Rose would be the one to end up in the drawing, so The Doctor could do his weekly gnashing of teeth over Rose's peril. [Originally posted by Dave: The thing in the cupboard was not explained enough for me.] Nothing was much explained. I guess the closet monster was Cleo's nightmare fears of her father made living by the space creature. How only the Olympic Torch could re-engergize the space pod wasn't explained either. At the end of the ridiculous scene on the torch route the road worker asks Rose what she did and Rose admits she doesn't know. That pretty much sums up this whole story - a confusing mess of themes and ideas without a unifying plot. Rose yelling to the space pod to soak up the love - is that what people feel along the torch route feel, love? I've seen the torch in Atlanta, GA, USA and I don't remember that. It was a little too much like clapping your hands to save Tinkerbell. Sometimes it seems they don't know if they're a show for kids or for adults - so instead of walking a middle line they throw in stuff for each. And why wasn't Rose able to figure out why The Doctor didn't reappear on the street when it was obvious that people returned from the place where they had disappeared and The Doctor disappeared down by the container yard? And if Cleo could make The Doctor and the TARDIS disappear, why didn't the stadium disappear with the fans? - oh, right, no budget for SFX. A vague, sloppy and entirely unsatisfying episode that will quickly be forgotten. In contrast to last season when the stories got richer in plot and characterization this season seems to be winding down before its finished. NO SPOILERS PLEASE I may be talking to myself, but if you know what's about to happen please don't say anything. I am going to speculate based solely on what I've seen in the show so far. The themes are - something's coming (a different Oncoming-Storm apparently). - Rose and The Doctor may be coming to real strife between them. - The Doctor has promised that Rose won't come to the same end as the other companions. I hope he included Adric in that - and if you don't know who he is, shame on you. I further hope that they doesn't steal a Buffy theme and make one of them turn into the evil bad guy that has to be defeated, but that would fit the bill. OH, well, there's no where to go from here but up, right? RIGHT?

27th June 2006, 11:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	[Originally posted by Dave: Well, I asked my 12 year old son what he had thought of it and to my amazement he thought it was one of the best.] You know, I'm not really surprised at that for the very reasons you mention. But it is strangely schizoid for a crew to do a "children's" show the week after doing a winking reference to oral sex. (My favorite lines in a children's show that were meant for adults, Batman, The Animated Series: The villianess has disguised herself as a policewoman to sneak into Police HQ. Detective: You look familiar. Villianess: Oh, I served you a subpoena one time. Detective: I don't remember that. Villianess: Well, it was a very small subpeona.) ========================== [Originally posted by Dave: ...you seem to have forgotten that Satan in the Pit twice mentioned that Rose "will die in battle" in both those episodes.] You know, I thought you had me there for a minute. 'Cause, I thought, hey, he's right, I remember that now. But here's the thing... There are several reasons why I forgot about that - it was a medoicre episode, easily forgotten; Satan is the Great Deciever, so I didn't put a lot of stock in what he was saying anyway; and then there's what he actually said... --- At first he says, "You will die here, all of you." - including Rose and The Doctor, presumably. --- A couple of minutes later this dialogue takes place: SATAN: "And the lost girl, so far away from home. The valient child, who will die in battle so very soon." ROSE: "So what does that mean?" DOCTOR: "Rose, don't listen." ROSE: "So what does that mean?" SATAN: "You will die and I will live." --- Not exactly a ringing endorsement of his precognative skills, is it? I mean, four statements and two of them are clearly wrong and the one about Rose being far from home doesn't exactly take a Swami when you're standing on a planet orbiting a black hole. He does make telling statements about the other crew, but he gets the who lives and who dies future all wrong. It's not out of the realm to interpret that he thought Rose was going to be killed by the Ood. I agree that the writer's may have slipped in some foreshadowing here, but it's hard to be sure when the creature is so wrong about everything else. ========================== [Originally posted by PTeppic: ...you'd also have to assume that Torchwood will feature.] Agreed, but except for Queen Victoria's dire warning that Torchwood would prepare for The Doctor's return (he certainly didn't take his banishment very seriously) we don't really know very much more, so its hard to make predictions - in that Torchwood is a lot like Bad Wolf again. But it's strange that if Torchwood has been waiting for The Doctor since Victorian times that when The Doctor reappeared he was escorted to 10 Downing Street and depended on for advice. Torchwood wasn't even mentioned - it must have been in that red folder that made Harriet Jones' eyes widen.

29th June 2006, 12:05 AM	#10 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	Okay, I think I may have an answer. It's probably not the Official Dr. Who answer, but I think it works. I hope I can explain it clearly. We know history can change and only once did flying monkeys try to destroy the Earth because history changed. We know that despite the potential to change history any way he likes, The Doctor and his companions pretty much live their lives linearly. They don't go back and do "do-overs" to correct mistakes. The Doctor is sad when Reinette dies even though she has been dead for hundreds, if not billions, of years to him. Why doesn't he just use the TARDIS to visit her? Because of his self-imposed rule to live his life linearly. So if we think about it linearly - perhaps Torchwood wasn't dedicated to preparing for The Doctor's return or perhaps it wasn't even created by Queen Victoria UNTIL the "Tooth & Claw" episode. We know that The Doctor wasn't banished from the United Kingdom UNTIL Queen V did it. Staying linear, before she proclaimed his banishment The Doctor and his previous incarnations were not under its sway. Others who may have been aware that in some point in history she banished him might act as if he were prohibited, but The Doctor would not be flaunting her authority UNTIL she said it to him, regardless of the date of that proclaimation. From that point on, in his personal time-line, he is banished from the UK even if he visits it in prehistoric time. SO, what if, follow me here.. Torchwood wasn't created until that spaceship crashed to Earth, according to PM Jones, 10 years before the Christmas Invasion or about 1996. So it wouldn't have existed in the 1970's. Then after Queen V got a bee in her bonnet, Torchwood's history changed? And now, its an old established institution with an old mission statement? If that's the case, maybe The Doctor since then, hasn't raised enough of a fuss to get noticed on a national level and attract Torchwood's attention - yet. Maybe the next time red flashing lights go off at the mention of The Doctor, it won't be to invite him to Downing Street. I don't think that the writers will go that way, but it would be an explaination for some of the anamolies created by recent episodes.