Your thoughts on book 6? *warning spoilers inside* - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

timdgreat · 16th July 2005, 09:14 AM

well seeing as i have just gotten the book 3 hours ago and am only about 200 pages in i cant tell u what i think of the whole book, but so far i am enjoying it, just wish i could find the power to set it down and read it more slowly

but thats isnt gonna happen.:rolly2:

little smaug · 17th July 2005, 12:02 AM

5 and a half hours later - wow. Just... wow. I did not see that coming. Any of it.

I thought it was great, probably on a par with Prisoner of Azkaban. Much more plot development, an insight into Voldemort's earlier years, answers to a lot of questions, and a fair number of real shocks.

Plus, zombies. Everybody loves a book with reanimated corpses.

So, where to begin? There was a fair amount of hormone overload, but they are sixteen, so I guess that can be forgiven. And none of the pairings particularly bother me (well, maybe Filch/Pince, but that might just be me

). Tonks/Lupin is very cute, Harry/Ginny is more along the lines of, "Duh, it's about time!" Ron/Hermione I don't agree with, but they're not actually together yet, so I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

Anyway, moving away from general shippiness. Scrimgeour is... interesting, for lack of a better word. When he was first introduced, it seemed as though there was actually a competent Minister, finally. But now it seems as though they've just gone from one extreme to the other, from a man who did nothing, to a man who is doing all the wrong things. I wish we'd seen more of him though, I'm not really sure what to make of him.

The same goes for Slughorn. I'm trying to have an opinion towards him - any kind of opinion - but I can't. I don't like him, I don't hate him. He seems to be a very forgettable type of character. I may have to think about him a bit more.

But speaking of, what a surprise to start the book with, that Snape finally got the Defence position! I'm amused by the fact that so many people had theories about the part Snape would play in this book, because of the Potions book on the adult cover. Turns out that there was a connection, just a completely different one to what everyone thought.

I like the idea of Horcruxes, and of Voldemort splitting his soul - it explains how he stayed alive, it explains the diary, and it kind of explains his rapid descent into evil.

I was shocked that Draco turned out to be a Death Eater. I mean, we always knew that he supported Voldemort - but to actually take the mark, and to be doing tasks for Voldemort. Still, he didn't like what he was doing, and for all his bravado in front of his friends, he couldn't kill Dumbledore. I like that we're seeing a different side to Draco - it seems that he may be more complex than most give him credit for.

And so, finally, we get to the ending. Snape turning out to be on Voldemort's side after all, I did not anticipate. And Snape killing Dumbledore! I don't think anyone anticipated that! I keep trying to think of other explanations than the obvious. Like, maybe he had no choice, maybe the Unbreakable Vow works like Imperius. Or maybe Dumbledore gave him orders for such a situation. Maybe it wasn't really Snape. Maybe it wasn't really Dumbledore!

And yet, deep down, I know that it's just as straight-forward as it seems. Snape is evil. Dumbledore is dead. Snape killed him. But I still don't buy that Dumbledore would trust Snape so much if he didn't have a very good reason. That Snape was upset when James and Lily died is not a good enough reason. There has to be more to it than that. So I'm still holding out a tiny little flame of hope, until Rowling says that Dumbledore is definately dead.

You know, it's just occured to me how very dark this series has become. I know how many adults read them, but they are still primarily childrens books, and this is some serious material. And if that was only the 6th book, what is the 7th going to be like? No Dumbledore, probably no Hogwarts, the trio not going back even if it does stay open. I get the feeling that it is going to get a lot darker before the series is over.

timdgreat · 17th July 2005, 12:15 AM

well i would just like to say , WOW, great book, loved it.

i knew dumbledore had to die, msotly cause he was the only wizard Voldermort ever feared, but i didnt expect him to go this way. i mean snape doing the deed, that was a shocker, but wow did it add to the greantness of this book.

im wondering now whos gonna lead the resistance to voldermort, i mean yeah the ministry is fighting back, but they still dont seem to be making any head way against the death eaters.

will malfoy turn on voldermort in book 7, i have some ideas on this theory, but am still forming them into a coherent argument.

im glad that Jk brought in the explanation that voldermort was impossible to kill cause of splitting his soul, it makes a lot more sense now. but who is this RaB person. which side are they on? will they help or fight against voldermort.

wow i have to go reread this again, its too good and i missed out on so much.

oh yeah way to go harry on finally getting together with ginny, now if only ron and hermoine would get a move on

:rolly2:

Steffi · 18th July 2005, 06:54 PM

Well brilliant...shocked...great storyline for the next book, with Harry and pals looking for the 4 souls.

Quote:

And yet, deep down, I know that it's just as straight-forward as it seems. Snape is evil. Dumbledore is dead. Snape killed him. But I still don't buy that Dumbledore would trust Snape so much if he didn't have a very good reason. That Snape was upset when James and Lily died is not a good enough reason. There has to be more to it than that. So I'm still holding out a tiny little flame of hope, until Rowling says that Dumbledore is definately dead.

I do have a theory though, you'll probably think I'm mad.

What if Dumbledore was dying from the poison anyway??
What if Snape knew this??
Why would Dumbledores voice sound like he was pleading??

Is it possible they both knew he was dying a horrble death and maybe Snape put him out of his misery and also to make Voldermort trust him implicitly....do you see where I'm going.

Looking forward to the last one, I hope we don't have to wait too long.

I am now in mournig

timdgreat · 18th July 2005, 08:42 PM

actually steffi that makes perfect sense, snape and dumbledore could have decided that it was for the best,

at least thats the best idea yet that i like for snape killing him

:rolly2:

little smaug · 18th July 2005, 09:21 PM

I've just finished re-reading the book, and I have to agree with both of you. Things certainly seem to take a different twist when you know what is going to happen, and can look out for little tell-tale signs. Anyway, this is my new theory:

Dumbledore already suspected, earlier in the book, that he would die at some point. I'm thinking back to the 'argument' that Dumbledore and Snape had (can't remember what chapter it was in for reference, sorry). Harry assumed they were arguing about Draco. I think that Snape had told Dumbledore about the Unbreakable Vow he was forced to take, and I think that Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him, if it came to a choice between himself or Snape.

It's pretty obvious that Dumbledore was going to die anyway, from drinking the liquid in the cave. If Snape had done nothing, then Dumbledore would have died anyway, and Snape would have died from breaking the Unbreakable Vow. This way, rather than dying for nothing, Dumbledore died to protect Snape's position, which is probably the strongest advantage they have.

Thinking back to the death scene, when Snape comes onto the tower, Dumbledore says to him, "Severus... please...". This sounds as though Dumbledore is begging Snape not to kill him. But Dumbledore, begging for his life? Does that really sound like something he would do? I think it is more likely that Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to keep his promise, to do what had to be done for the greater good.

And before delivering the killing curse - 'Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face.' At first glance, it seems as though that 'revulsion and hatred' is directed at Dumbledore. But it could equally be directed at himself, for what he knows must be done.

And the final factor - Snape didn't kill Harry. I know he says that Voldemort wants Harry alive. But he stops the other Death Eater from crucio-ing him, and though he blocks all the curses/hexes Harry throws at him, he doesn't return any of them. And then he has Harry at his mercy - no wand, nobody around to help, and yet he still does nothing. Even if he didn't want to kill him because of Voldemort's orders, he still had the opportunity to give him a few kicks, or even to immobilise him and take him to Voldemort. But he doesn't. In a slightly skewed sense, it still seems as though he is protecting Harry.

timdgreat · 19th July 2005, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by little smaug

And the final factor - Snape didn't kill Harry. I know he says that Voldemort wants Harry alive. But he stops the other Death Eater from crucio-ing him, and though he blocks all the curses/hexes Harry throws at him, he doesn't return any of them. And then he has Harry at his mercy - no wand, nobody around to help, and yet he still does nothing. Even if he didn't want to kill him because of Voldemort's orders, he still had the opportunity to give him a few kicks, or even to immobilise him and take him to Voldemort. But he doesn't. In a slightly skewed sense, it still seems as though he is protecting Harry.

i would remind you little smaug that neither snape or the death eaters or draco knew harry was on the tower roof, Harry was under the invisibility cloak, otherwise he would have done something to stop snape, or at least tried.:rolly2:

little smaug · 19th July 2005, 11:15 AM

No, not on the tower - I meant when Harry chased after Snape onto the grounds.

It was just Harry and Snape, with a couple of scattered Death Eaters - the perfect opportunity to kidnap Harry. But he didn't.

timdgreat · 19th July 2005, 03:05 PM

well i would think that considering the # of people most likely chasing after snape, behind harry, that he wouldnt want to get slowed down that much, not to mention he said that Harry was for the dark lord, which means that voldermort wants to take care of him personally. :rolly2:

Trunks · 19th July 2005, 07:50 PM

a simple Levicorpse spell and he isnt burdened... after a total petrification spell so harry cant do anything...

no..

smaug covered all my points.. i was on teh same thinkings

little smaug · 19th July 2005, 08:10 PM

Yeah, that's what I was going for - petrify, levitate, apparate - quick and easy.

Glad it's not just me, though - you hear so many crackpot theories going around, after a while, you start to wonder if yours is one too! Have you guys heard the one where Dumbledore was actually Wormtail on Polyjuice?

timdgreat · 20th July 2005, 01:00 AM

no thats just screwed up.

hey help me clarify this, i kinda sped through the last bit of the book, well lets say it carried me along very quickly,

do we know why dumbledore drank that stuff that was killing him, didnt he know that the pendant was a fake?:rolly2:

Trunks · 20th July 2005, 09:40 AM

no he didnt.. he drank it because it was the only was to get to the bottom of the potion... to get the pendant and destroy a horcrux.. also he classed harry as being more important to live than himself... prehaps the curse that affected his hand made him weaker as well as him growing old?

little smaug · 20th July 2005, 11:54 AM

Yeah, I don't think there was any way he could have known it wasn't the real horcrux.

But that, of course, begs the question - who is R.A.B.? How did he/she know about the horcrux? And did he/she put the poison in the basin, or did he/she somehow manage to get the locket without emptying the liquid?

Any theories on that one?

timdgreat · 21st July 2005, 06:02 AM

well im guessing that RAB is someone who harry will meet and will help him fight voldermort in the next book, mostly i think this because i just cant see harry as being able to find all the other Horacrux's on his own.

and im sure that there is some way to empty the basin without drinking the liquid, how else would voldermort get to it?:rolly2:

View Poll Results: Whats your opinion on the book?
its the best yet	6	85.71%
it was pretty good	1	14.29%
it wasnt what i expected	0	0%
i didnt like it at all	0	0%
im at a loss for words	0	0%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

16th July 2005, 09:14 AM	#1 (permalink)
timdgreat For the Emperor Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Alexandria VA, USA(Washington DC u idiots) Posts: 3,093	Your thoughts on book 6? well seeing as i have just gotten the book 3 hours ago and am only about 200 pages in i cant tell u what i think of the whole book, but so far i am enjoying it, just wish i could find the power to set it down and read it more slowly but thats isnt gonna happen.:rolly2:

17th July 2005, 12:15 AM	#3 (permalink)
timdgreat For the Emperor Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Alexandria VA, USA(Washington DC u idiots) Posts: 3,093	well i would just like to say , WOW, great book, loved it. i knew dumbledore had to die, msotly cause he was the only wizard Voldermort ever feared, but i didnt expect him to go this way. i mean snape doing the deed, that was a shocker, but wow did it add to the greantness of this book. im wondering now whos gonna lead the resistance to voldermort, i mean yeah the ministry is fighting back, but they still dont seem to be making any head way against the death eaters. will malfoy turn on voldermort in book 7, i have some ideas on this theory, but am still forming them into a coherent argument. im glad that Jk brought in the explanation that voldermort was impossible to kill cause of splitting his soul, it makes a lot more sense now. but who is this RaB person. which side are they on? will they help or fight against voldermort. wow i have to go reread this again, its too good and i missed out on so much. oh yeah way to go harry on finally getting together with ginny, now if only ron and hermoine would get a move on:rolly2:

18th July 2005, 08:42 PM	#5 (permalink)
timdgreat For the Emperor Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Alexandria VA, USA(Washington DC u idiots) Posts: 3,093	actually steffi that makes perfect sense, snape and dumbledore could have decided that it was for the best, at least thats the best idea yet that i like for snape killing him:rolly2:

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

17th July 2005, 12:02 AM	#2 (permalink)
little smaug Fire and Brimstone Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Yorkshire Posts: 1,343	5 and a half hours later - wow. Just... wow. I did not see that coming. Any of it. I thought it was great, probably on a par with Prisoner of Azkaban. Much more plot development, an insight into Voldemort's earlier years, answers to a lot of questions, and a fair number of real shocks. Plus, zombies. Everybody loves a book with reanimated corpses. So, where to begin? There was a fair amount of hormone overload, but they are sixteen, so I guess that can be forgiven. And none of the pairings particularly bother me (well, maybe Filch/Pince, but that might just be me ). Tonks/Lupin is very cute, Harry/Ginny is more along the lines of, "Duh, it's about time!" Ron/Hermione I don't agree with, but they're not actually together yet, so I'll burn that bridge when I come to it. Anyway, moving away from general shippiness. Scrimgeour is... interesting, for lack of a better word. When he was first introduced, it seemed as though there was actually a competent Minister, finally. But now it seems as though they've just gone from one extreme to the other, from a man who did nothing, to a man who is doing all the wrong things. I wish we'd seen more of him though, I'm not really sure what to make of him. The same goes for Slughorn. I'm trying to have an opinion towards him - any kind of opinion - but I can't. I don't like him, I don't hate him. He seems to be a very forgettable type of character. I may have to think about him a bit more. But speaking of, what a surprise to start the book with, that Snape finally got the Defence position! I'm amused by the fact that so many people had theories about the part Snape would play in this book, because of the Potions book on the adult cover. Turns out that there was a connection, just a completely different one to what everyone thought. I like the idea of Horcruxes, and of Voldemort splitting his soul - it explains how he stayed alive, it explains the diary, and it kind of explains his rapid descent into evil. I was shocked that Draco turned out to be a Death Eater. I mean, we always knew that he supported Voldemort - but to actually take the mark, and to be doing tasks for Voldemort. Still, he didn't like what he was doing, and for all his bravado in front of his friends, he couldn't kill Dumbledore. I like that we're seeing a different side to Draco - it seems that he may be more complex than most give him credit for. And so, finally, we get to the ending. Snape turning out to be on Voldemort's side after all, I did not anticipate. And Snape killing Dumbledore! I don't think anyone anticipated that! I keep trying to think of other explanations than the obvious. Like, maybe he had no choice, maybe the Unbreakable Vow works like Imperius. Or maybe Dumbledore gave him orders for such a situation. Maybe it wasn't really Snape. Maybe it wasn't really Dumbledore! And yet, deep down, I know that it's just as straight-forward as it seems. Snape is evil. Dumbledore is dead. Snape killed him. But I still don't buy that Dumbledore would trust Snape so much if he didn't have a very good reason. That Snape was upset when James and Lily died is not a good enough reason. There has to be more to it than that. So I'm still holding out a tiny little flame of hope, until Rowling says that Dumbledore is definately dead. You know, it's just occured to me how very dark this series has become. I know how many adults read them, but they are still primarily childrens books, and this is some serious material. And if that was only the 6th book, what is the 7th going to be like? No Dumbledore, probably no Hogwarts, the trio not going back even if it does stay open. I get the feeling that it is going to get a lot darker before the series is over.

18th July 2005, 09:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
little smaug Fire and Brimstone Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Yorkshire Posts: 1,343	I've just finished re-reading the book, and I have to agree with both of you. Things certainly seem to take a different twist when you know what is going to happen, and can look out for little tell-tale signs. Anyway, this is my new theory: Dumbledore already suspected, earlier in the book, that he would die at some point. I'm thinking back to the 'argument' that Dumbledore and Snape had (can't remember what chapter it was in for reference, sorry). Harry assumed they were arguing about Draco. I think that Snape had told Dumbledore about the Unbreakable Vow he was forced to take, and I think that Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him, if it came to a choice between himself or Snape. It's pretty obvious that Dumbledore was going to die anyway, from drinking the liquid in the cave. If Snape had done nothing, then Dumbledore would have died anyway, and Snape would have died from breaking the Unbreakable Vow. This way, rather than dying for nothing, Dumbledore died to protect Snape's position, which is probably the strongest advantage they have. Thinking back to the death scene, when Snape comes onto the tower, Dumbledore says to him, "Severus... please...". This sounds as though Dumbledore is begging Snape not to kill him. But Dumbledore, begging for his life? Does that really sound like something he would do? I think it is more likely that Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to keep his promise, to do what had to be done for the greater good. And before delivering the killing curse - 'Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face.' At first glance, it seems as though that 'revulsion and hatred' is directed at Dumbledore. But it could equally be directed at himself, for what he knows must be done. And the final factor - Snape didn't kill Harry. I know he says that Voldemort wants Harry alive. But he stops the other Death Eater from crucio-ing him, and though he blocks all the curses/hexes Harry throws at him, he doesn't return any of them. And then he has Harry at his mercy - no wand, nobody around to help, and yet he still does nothing. Even if he didn't want to kill him because of Voldemort's orders, he still had the opportunity to give him a few kicks, or even to immobilise him and take him to Voldemort. But he doesn't. In a slightly skewed sense, it still seems as though he is protecting Harry.

19th July 2005, 11:15 AM	#8 (permalink)
little smaug Fire and Brimstone Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Yorkshire Posts: 1,343	No, not on the tower - I meant when Harry chased after Snape onto the grounds. It was just Harry and Snape, with a couple of scattered Death Eaters - the perfect opportunity to kidnap Harry. But he didn't.

19th July 2005, 03:05 PM	#9 (permalink)
timdgreat For the Emperor Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Alexandria VA, USA(Washington DC u idiots) Posts: 3,093	well i would think that considering the # of people most likely chasing after snape, behind harry, that he wouldnt want to get slowed down that much, not to mention he said that Harry was for the dark lord, which means that voldermort wants to take care of him personally. :rolly2:

19th July 2005, 07:50 PM	#10 (permalink)
Trunks AkA DA(Dark Angel) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Birmingham (england) Posts: 1,651	a simple Levicorpse spell and he isnt burdened... after a total petrification spell so harry cant do anything... no.. smaug covered all my points.. i was on teh same thinkings

19th July 2005, 08:10 PM	#11 (permalink)
little smaug Fire and Brimstone Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Yorkshire Posts: 1,343	Yeah, that's what I was going for - petrify, levitate, apparate - quick and easy. Glad it's not just me, though - you hear so many crackpot theories going around, after a while, you start to wonder if yours is one too! Have you guys heard the one where Dumbledore was actually Wormtail on Polyjuice?

20th July 2005, 01:00 AM	#12 (permalink)
timdgreat For the Emperor Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Alexandria VA, USA(Washington DC u idiots) Posts: 3,093	no thats just screwed up. hey help me clarify this, i kinda sped through the last bit of the book, well lets say it carried me along very quickly, do we know why dumbledore drank that stuff that was killing him, didnt he know that the pendant was a fake?:rolly2:

20th July 2005, 09:40 AM	#13 (permalink)
Trunks AkA DA(Dark Angel) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Birmingham (england) Posts: 1,651	no he didnt.. he drank it because it was the only was to get to the bottom of the potion... to get the pendant and destroy a horcrux.. also he classed harry as being more important to live than himself... prehaps the curse that affected his hand made him weaker as well as him growing old?

20th July 2005, 11:54 AM	#14 (permalink)
little smaug Fire and Brimstone Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Yorkshire Posts: 1,343	Yeah, I don't think there was any way he could have known it wasn't the real horcrux. But that, of course, begs the question - who is R.A.B.? How did he/she know about the horcrux? And did he/she put the poison in the basin, or did he/she somehow manage to get the locket without emptying the liquid? Any theories on that one?

21st July 2005, 06:02 AM	#15 (permalink)
timdgreat For the Emperor Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Alexandria VA, USA(Washington DC u idiots) Posts: 3,093	well im guessing that RAB is someone who harry will meet and will help him fight voldermort in the next book, mostly i think this because i just cant see harry as being able to find all the other Horacrux's on his own. and im sure that there is some way to empty the basin without drinking the liquid, how else would voldermort get to it?:rolly2: