Wuxia genre

[White_Tiger]

So I see my crazy friend has started to infect the minds of the west with her little obsession... Okay, some quick keynotes. Wuxia novels are GREAT. They have entertaining plots, lovable characters and cool action scenes. Some (like 2%, say?) actually have depth and theme as well. But I do think it's one of those things that you can't quite translate. People have attempted, but they will only be as good as, say, Lord of the Rings in Chinese (which I assure you, is HORRIBLE! It's going to make Tolkien turn in his grave). It's due to the culture difference. Like you can never quite find matching words for Elves, rangers, wizards, lords, sire, etc in Chinese, you can never find words to match Jiang Hu, Qi (or Chi as most people call it), Shi Jie, Shi Xiong etc in English. So translation is futile. That's why movies are much better for the western world. They are much more visual...

Now onto some common misunderstandings. First of all, Wuxia doesn't qualify as fantasy because there is ABSOLUTELY NO MAGIC involved (unless you are born in the days of the Empire reading stuff written by this guy named Ping Jiang Bu Xiao Sheng or Huan Zhu Lou Zhu (( excuse me for their impossibly long names, but it's not my fault)). ) All the wonderful things, like walking on water, flying up a wall, poking at people with fingers and then they can't move (did you actually see that in Hero or Crouching Tiger? I bet most of you didn't get that). They are all explained "scientifically". It's quote on quote because that science is fantastic (like all those WEIRD things CHinese people came up with). Walking on water and flying up a wall is actually a form of martical arts (I am absolutely certain it's true to a degree. I have seen people who can walk on walls ((not spiderman kind of walking on walls. just walking on walls as if it is normal)).). I have also seen people (or rather, this one person) who can do hand stand on only two fingers. Fallenstar would know, since that old monk did live in her hometown. And poking people to make them unable to move is also martial arts (sort of). It's actually acupuncture, done with fingers rather than needles. (And I suppose that is fictional. It's not that effective, it's more like your chiropractor kind of thing in reality). A lot of this stuff are real. Like in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, the Wu Dang sect. It still exists today, and people in that sect still practice martial arts. And they are good at it. And Shaolin Monastery really exists too. They are a very OLD monastery establishment. And they have lots and lots of cool martial arts.

Hmmm.... what else? Oh yes, recommandations. The most famous and wonderful Wuxia writer is obviously Louis Cha (Jin Yong). Every single Chinese knows him, and I am NOT exaggerating. He wrote a total of 12 full length novels, of which 6 are longer than LOTR. And ignore Fallenstar and whatever she said about The Return of the Condor Heroes. It's certainly NOT his best. His critically best is named The Deer and the Caldron. It has been translated to English by this bored person in Oxford (I think the same department that translated The Romance of the Three Kingdoms), and the book is selling on Amazon and your local Chinese book store. I don't know if any library has them. My local one certainly doesn't, but you can try your luck. His other critically acclaimed best are State of Divinity and Demi Gods, semi devils. There are some translations on various websites. (Don't have the URL, so go search for Jin Yong or Louis Cha on google and you should find it.) But, I must warn you, the translations are HORRIBLE. They are done by amateur writers who have way too much time on their hands. Personally, I think even I can do better. It looks like an Babelfish tranlsation to me. Hmmmmm, that's about it.

Finally, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, while is a fun film, is actually not that great of a book. The only reason that it was made into a movie because it was the only one short enough. (As I said, most famous Wuxia works are longer than LOTR. So.....) Hero and the House of Flying Daggers are even worse. Because they are not realizations of novels. I don't know which idiot did the script, but I do know it's bad. Hero is viciously attacked for its crudity and lack of plot in China. House of Flying Daggers is just a film to showcase some really hot stars together. So no. If you would really like to watch some Wuxia series. TVBS of Hong Kong had done some admirably beautiful pieces. If you are not Chinese, it's rather hard for you to find them to begin with. And if you do find them, there is a 50-50 percent chance that they come with English subtitles. The series The Legend of the Condor Heroes made in 83 had excellent acting, but poor special effects and cinematography. My favourite is the series Demi gods, semi devils made in 97. Excellent everything. The same series made by CCTV (that's the mainland people) in 2003 has excellent everything as well. And prettier actresses.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.... I think I just talked too much. Excuse me. But I do love this topic dearly. Feel free to ask questions. I probably know more than you ever want to know. Yes, I know, I have a head full of useless information.

Cheers. Cya soon.

[Lacedaemonian]

Perhaps the greatest post to ever grace these boards, and your first to boot!! Welcome to the boards mate, please tell us a little about yourself. I may be able to download some of those movies you mentioned, but as for subtitles... I can not procure a copy of House of the Flying Daggers with english subs so I will not hold my breathe. Do you think that Jesus was simply a great kung fu artist with tremendous chi?

[fallenstar]

Ha! I was there when my dear friend White Tiger wrote this thread, we had a good time writing this one, I tell ye, she is as crazy as me here on those matters, of course she would write a lot! I mentioned to her this thread I started, and she was very interested. About herself, well, she is my classmate and friend, same background(Chinese but immigranted to Canada), and she only registered because she wanted to post this reply and was in a hurry to do so, so you don't see a lot of infos. She is also a great fan of fantasy and sic-fi, especially LOTR, as you can see she mentioned LOTR a lot. okay I am not going to say too much incase she would want to kill me on Monday for info leaking......

[Lacedaemonian]

You are a pair of very secretive girls!

[littlemissattitude]

fallenstar...you've got to convince White Tiger to hang out here more. She seems very knowledgable about wuxia, which I had never heard of before this thread appeared. The genre sounds very interesting, and I'd like to know more about it.

[fallenstar]

I would try. She does have the skill here to make whatever the thoughts into words, as many have failed to do so. You see, it is fun talking about this familiar Chinese topic of ours to the western people who were just starting to unfold the scroll of this beautiful genre.

[Innkeeper]

Hello!

I'm very excited to join this group as I am a wuxia novelist and came across this disscussion group by googling "wuxia novel" to see how my own site was fairing on the web. Someone mentioned Kung Fu Cinema - Home. The webmaster, Mark Pollard is a good friend and his wuxia pian (wuxia movies) reviews are top notch! Also do a search for "wuxia mania" this is a group that is working on wuxia novel translations as is wuxiapedia.com. I'm a long time medieval China scholar turned wuxia novelist and look forward to joining in this discussion.

[sarakoth]

Originally Posted by White_Tiger

So I see my crazy friend has started to infect the minds of the west with her little obsession... Okay, some quick keynotes. Wuxia novels are GREAT. They have entertaining plots, lovable characters and cool action scenes. Some (like 2%, say?) actually have depth and theme as well. But I do think it's one of those things that you can't quite translate. People have attempted, but they will only be as good as, say, Lord of the Rings in Chinese (which I assure you, is HORRIBLE! It's going to make Tolkien turn in his grave). It's due to the culture difference. Like you can never quite find matching words for Elves, rangers, wizards, lords, sire, etc in Chinese, you can never find words to match Jiang Hu, Qi (or Chi as most people call it), Shi Jie, Shi Xiong etc in English. So translation is futile. That's why movies are much better for the western world. They are much more visual...

Now onto some common misunderstandings. First of all, Wuxia doesn't qualify as fantasy because there is ABSOLUTELY NO MAGIC involved (unless you are born in the days of the Empire reading stuff written by this guy named Ping Jiang Bu Xiao Sheng or Huan Zhu Lou Zhu (( excuse me for their impossibly long names, but it's not my fault)). ) All the wonderful things, like walking on water, flying up a wall, poking at people with fingers and then they can't move (did you actually see that in Hero or Crouching Tiger? I bet most of you didn't get that). They are all explained "scientifically". It's quote on quote because that science is fantastic (like all those WEIRD things CHinese people came up with). Walking on water and flying up a wall is actually a form of martical arts (I am absolutely certain it's true to a degree. I have seen people who can walk on walls ((not spiderman kind of walking on walls. just walking on walls as if it is normal)).). I have also seen people (or rather, this one person) who can do hand stand on only two fingers. Fallenstar would know, since that old monk did live in her hometown. And poking people to make them unable to move is also martial arts (sort of). It's actually acupuncture, done with fingers rather than needles. (And I suppose that is fictional. It's not that effective, it's more like your chiropractor kind of thing in reality). A lot of this stuff are real. Like in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, the Wu Dang sect. It still exists today, and people in that sect still practice martial arts. And they are good at it. And Shaolin Monastery really exists too. They are a very OLD monastery establishment. And they have lots and lots of cool martial arts.

Hmmm.... what else? Oh yes, recommandations. The most famous and wonderful Wuxia writer is obviously Louis Cha (Jin Yong). Every single Chinese knows him, and I am NOT exaggerating. He wrote a total of 12 full length novels, of which 6 are longer than LOTR. And ignore Fallenstar and whatever she said about The Return of the Condor Heroes. It's certainly NOT his best. His critically best is named The Deer and the Caldron. It has been translated to English by this bored person in Oxford (I think the same department that translated The Romance of the Three Kingdoms), and the book is selling on Amazon and your local Chinese book store. I don't know if any library has them. My local one certainly doesn't, but you can try your luck. His other critically acclaimed best are State of Divinity and Demi Gods, semi devils. There are some translations on various websites. (Don't have the URL, so go search for Jin Yong or Louis Cha on google and you should find it.) But, I must warn you, the translations are HORRIBLE. They are done by amateur writers who have way too much time on their hands. Personally, I think even I can do better. It looks like an Babelfish tranlsation to me. Hmmmmm, that's about it.

Finally, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, while is a fun film, is actually not that great of a book. The only reason that it was made into a movie because it was the only one short enough. (As I said, most famous Wuxia works are longer than LOTR. So.....) Hero and the House of Flying Daggers are even worse. Because they are not realizations of novels. I don't know which idiot did the script, but I do know it's bad. Hero is viciously attacked for its crudity and lack of plot in China. House of Flying Daggers is just a film to showcase some really hot stars together. So no. If you would really like to watch some Wuxia series. TVBS of Hong Kong had done some admirably beautiful pieces. If you are not Chinese, it's rather hard for you to find them to begin with. And if you do find them, there is a 50-50 percent chance that they come with English subtitles. The series The Legend of the Condor Heroes made in 83 had excellent acting, but poor special effects and cinematography. My favourite is the series Demi gods, semi devils made in 97. Excellent everything. The same series made by CCTV (that's the mainland people) in 2003 has excellent everything as well. And prettier actresses.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.... I think I just talked too much. Excuse me. But I do love this topic dearly. Feel free to ask questions. I probably know more than you ever want to know. Yes, I know, I have a head full of useless information.

Cheers. Cya soon.

Many famous wuxia novels are longer than the entire LOTR "Trilogy" combined. Legend of the Condor Heroes, the most popular and famous novel of Jin Yong would be about 2000 pages if it was in English.

[Connavar]

Seven Swordsmen from Mountain Tian av Liang Yu-sheng, any know if this one is translated into english?

Also im looking wuxia recommendations. I have seen alot of movies but i wanna read any good book in the genre. The translated ones of course not like you can read the chinese ones.

[Giovanna Clairval]

I am a big fan of the wuxia genre.

I wanted to post here something about shediao yingxiong zhuan, which I haven't read in Chinese (alas), but in French (La légende du heros chasseur d'aigles), but I didn't know the title in English.

Now, thanks to the thread, I know it.

Is the original title about a condor hunter? Why not the eagles?

I read it three years ago and simply loved it.

[Giovanna Clairval]

In my previous post I omitted to say that I loved the first third of the Condor. The rest repeats itself to death.

Jin Yong published it as a serialised novel. It was in the 50s, and people would queue up at the newstands to get the last episode. It was a real fad in China.

What I didn't like was the "ritual" skip in the timeline, by which I mean that, after a chapter written as real time action, a magically-elliptic sentence relates one year of the story. This comes up a lot in the second part of the book.

The first time it's funny and you don't mind, the fifth time it's annoying, and you think: "What a lazy writer, our Jin Yong!"
I suspect it was made on purpose in several popular novels.

[sarakoth]

Originally Posted by Giovanna Clairval

I am a big fan of the wuxia genre.

I wanted to post here something about shediao yingxiong zhuan, which I haven't read in Chinese (alas), but in French (La légende du heros chasseur d'aigles), but I didn't know the title in English.

Now, thanks to the thread, I know it.

Is the original title about a condor hunter? Why not the eagles?

I read it three years ago and simply loved it.

If you are a big fan of Jin Yong's works, you should join the wuxia forum at Spcnet. My username there is also sarakoth. It's a pretty big forum and there are also English versions of the novels. Although most of the people there are Chinese, there are a few whiteys here and there.

[Giovanna Clairval]

Thank you, Sarakoth.

The link, the link? Where's the link?

I'm lazier than Yong...

And what "Sarakoth" means, pray?

[tyr]

Originally Posted by White_Tiger

Hmmm.... what else? Oh yes, recommandations. The most famous and wonderful Wuxia writer is obviously Louis Cha (Jin Yong)...... His critically best is named The Deer and the Caldron.... His other critically acclaimed best are State of Divinity and Demi Gods, semi devils.

Amazing! My own personal favorites of Jin Yong are exactly the same as White_Tiger!

[sarakoth]

Originally Posted by sarakoth

If you are a big fan of Jin Yong's works, you should join the wuxia forum at Spcnet. My username there is also sarakoth. It's a pretty big forum and there are also English versions of the novels. Although most of the people there are Chinese, there are a few whiteys here and there.

Wuxia Fiction - SPCNET.TV Forums

here's the link

Most of our discussion revolve around Jin Yong's works.