The best star trek! - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

xaviersxmen · 10th July 2004, 08:01 PM

I think this was the best Star trek show they made and the worsest one is the newest one that they went backwards, which is pretty bad when the oldest one is better and that was generic.

Maria8475 · 11th July 2004, 01:31 PM

If you're interested, there's a poll here: http://www.ascifi.com/forums/showthr...threadid=19893

Where you can vote for your favourite show and check out what the rest of us have said too. (Voy could probably do with some votes

)

ray gower · 11th July 2004, 01:44 PM

I think that is a statement you will have to qualify!
There are more than a few who would put the best as TOS, TNG or even DS9.

IMHO, Voyager managed a lot of strong, individual and emotional stories. Some were (or felt) original in concept. So they certainly did better than Enterprise has to date.
But very few of those stories tied together into any form of progression or storyline, Enterprise is fairing a little better here.

Voyager felt no pressing desire to visit Earth in 1940 to wipe out Nazism. Plus 100 points for that.
-90 for the fact they couldn't leave the time hopping out all together!

Voyager did have 7o9, ignoring the obvious, she is one of the most fascinating genuine 'characters' they have had on Trek since Spock. Something that the T'Pot can't achieve.
But the detractors will point out it was a card that was badly over played, yet still managed to be under-realized.

I think there is something in your statement. Voyager is better than Enterprise. But there is not a lot in it.

But as to the best Trek, I'm afraid there is a long way to go to convince me of that

xaviersxmen · 11th July 2004, 04:55 PM

Which one do you think is the best? I would hope its not the one they are making now? As for ties thats what I liked about this one, no ties to bosses and no one saying they cant do this it was just them tring to get home.

ray gower · 11th July 2004, 10:09 PM

You have put your finger on the crux of the matter.

A star ship lost in the Galaxy having to fight and cheat its way back home IS a great premise for a series.

Unfortunately, Voyager never did:
It came out of space dock every week to face the latest batch of fuzzies. (aka, The reset button).
Surely Janeway, without somebody looking over her shoulder, would have to climb off her moral horse at points. Then perhaps would have to agonise about how she almost sold her beliefs to survive? There were some scenes like that, with Seven of Nine challenging her to explain herself, but not many. Only explanation here is that Janeway was not human.
And of course there is the Maqui. For a rebel group they were too docile and Star Fleet from the beginning.

As I said, there were a goodly number of good shows in Voyager. It is only when you try to piece them together as a series it starts to unravel.

xaviersxmen · 11th July 2004, 10:29 PM

You mean like the new show is unraveling the oldest one? That one should be forked fast and start a new one. Im ready for a new one that shows where we havnt been and not where we have. The new one has tecno stuff that Spook and them didnt have. Whats up with that? it was the worst idea in Star trek history.

ray gower · 11th July 2004, 10:36 PM

Would suggest you take the quibbles about Enterprise to the Enterprise forums?

But you have not offered a reason for Voyager being better than Enterprise yet?

Dave · 12th July 2004, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ray gower
Voyager felt no pressing desire to visit Earth in 1940 to wipe out Nazism. Plus 100 points for that.

That -100 for the Hirogen episode with the Nazis then

I've made it plain that 'Voyager' was my least favourite series, but 'Enterprise' could still swing it if they try any harder.

Having said that, 'Voyager' was a series with some great missed opportunities. As you say Ray, the Maquis should have been a source of weekly conflict, but just seemed to toe the line and become Starfleet officers. Kes' psychic powers could and should have been developed onboard ship, with her finding new abilities every week and having to cope with them. Neelix should have been a darker character, a used car salesman, market trader, wide boy, not just the butt of jokes. And Chakotay, what a waste of a good character and actor, anyone could have played Janeway's yes-man. Instead, they concentrated too many stories on Seven of nine, B'Elanna and Tom, and Harry Kim's unfortunate taste in women.

ray gower · 12th July 2004, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

That -100 for the Hirogen episode with the Nazis then

Think I managed to forget them. Probably because I was thinking 'Allo! Allo!' at the time

Besides it wasn't exactly a how to beat Nazism in one easy step and they didn't need to go to Earth for it.

On the negatives there are also the Borg, but Enterprise managed to dismiss them too. Makes one wonder why the TNG mob should be so incompetent?

Beverly · 18th May 2007, 02:28 AM

well i like Voyager/TNG/DS9 but i could not get into Enterprise at all, I sat and watched episode after episode and then the borg thing if that does not scream we employed a bunch of dumb ass writers to work on our show i dont know what does. Got bored of it ended up not caring for it in the end.

10th July 2004, 08:01 PM	#1 (permalink)
xaviersxmen X-mans Stargate Fan! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 101	The best star trek! I think this was the best Star trek show they made and the worsest one is the newest one that they went backwards, which is pretty bad when the oldest one is better and that was generic.

18th May 2007, 02:28 AM	#10 (permalink)
Beverly Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bristol Posts: 13	Re: The best star trek! well i like Voyager/TNG/DS9 but i could not get into Enterprise at all, I sat and watched episode after episode and then the borg thing if that does not scream we employed a bunch of dumb ass writers to work on our show i dont know what does. Got bored of it ended up not caring for it in the end.

11th July 2004, 01:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
Maria8475 It goes on..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 4,690	If you're interested, there's a poll here: http://www.ascifi.com/forums/showthr...threadid=19893 Where you can vote for your favourite show and check out what the rest of us have said too. (Voy could probably do with some votes )

11th July 2004, 01:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
ray gower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gwynedd Posts: 3,579	I think that is a statement you will have to qualify! There are more than a few who would put the best as TOS, TNG or even DS9. IMHO, Voyager managed a lot of strong, individual and emotional stories. Some were (or felt) original in concept. So they certainly did better than Enterprise has to date. But very few of those stories tied together into any form of progression or storyline, Enterprise is fairing a little better here. Voyager felt no pressing desire to visit Earth in 1940 to wipe out Nazism. Plus 100 points for that. -90 for the fact they couldn't leave the time hopping out all together! Voyager did have 7o9, ignoring the obvious, she is one of the most fascinating genuine 'characters' they have had on Trek since Spock. Something that the T'Pot can't achieve. But the detractors will point out it was a card that was badly over played, yet still managed to be under-realized. I think there is something in your statement. Voyager is better than Enterprise. But there is not a lot in it. But as to the best Trek, I'm afraid there is a long way to go to convince me of that

11th July 2004, 04:55 PM	#4 (permalink)
xaviersxmen X-mans Stargate Fan! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 101	Which one do you think is the best? I would hope its not the one they are making now? As for ties thats what I liked about this one, no ties to bosses and no one saying they cant do this it was just them tring to get home.

11th July 2004, 10:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
ray gower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gwynedd Posts: 3,579	You have put your finger on the crux of the matter. A star ship lost in the Galaxy having to fight and cheat its way back home IS a great premise for a series. Unfortunately, Voyager never did: It came out of space dock every week to face the latest batch of fuzzies. (aka, The reset button). Surely Janeway, without somebody looking over her shoulder, would have to climb off her moral horse at points. Then perhaps would have to agonise about how she almost sold her beliefs to survive? There were some scenes like that, with Seven of Nine challenging her to explain herself, but not many. Only explanation here is that Janeway was not human. And of course there is the Maqui. For a rebel group they were too docile and Star Fleet from the beginning. As I said, there were a goodly number of good shows in Voyager. It is only when you try to piece them together as a series it starts to unravel.

11th July 2004, 10:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
xaviersxmen X-mans Stargate Fan! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 101	You mean like the new show is unraveling the oldest one? That one should be forked fast and start a new one. Im ready for a new one that shows where we havnt been and not where we have. The new one has tecno stuff that Spook and them didnt have. Whats up with that? it was the worst idea in Star trek history.

11th July 2004, 10:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
ray gower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gwynedd Posts: 3,579	Would suggest you take the quibbles about Enterprise to the Enterprise forums? But you have not offered a reason for Voyager being better than Enterprise yet?