Samwise Gamgee, simpleton or hero?

[epicfantasy7]

The important point about Samwise Gamgee is that he is both and that is the main point of the story -The theme of the little guy can prevail is what runs through the whole story.

If a character has all the trappings of a hero, strength, speed, intelligence, drive etc..etc etc. Heroic acts are expected of him so the acts are not really heroic. But when epic deeds are performed by one who appears to no be capable then we have a real hero.

I think this was very important to Tolkien, and to the entire British society in the throes of two devastating world wars. They saw themselves as little guys who would persist.

[SmoothasSilk]

I have to agree with everyone that say's that Sam is the true hero of the stories.

Even though he was well-respected and rich in the end, got all that Frodo had, he was still loyal. Plus, in the end, all the heroes got passed down Bilbo's book to add their stories. And the last person to got it was on other than Sam Gamgee, and the book ended with him, alone, with no other characters with him, returning to his family.

Why does the book end with Sam, and not with, say, Merry? Because he is the Bilbo of the book! Both Bilbo and him left with nothing, and both came back to good fortune: Sam, with his family, and Bilbo, with his treasure. Sam was the last chronicler of the book, and that's a significant fact.

Saltheart: Wow, you've certainly given the whole series a different lilt now. Your right, Bilbo returned with treasures. Sam returned victorious and got Rosie and thirteen adorable Hobbit children, his 'treasure'. Thank you for pointing that out to me.

[Santeeil]

Originally Posted by ray gower

We've seen the films, many of us have read the books, what is your take on one of the foremost of the characters?

Is he ignored because he is a servant?
Or perhaps because 'It was Frodo who had to complete the task'

Why stick with his master through so much?

As stated in Clerks 2, he is obviously gay!! And has serious feelings for Elijah

[SmoothasSilk]

Um, okay then explain why Sam has THIRTEEN children then if he's gay? Sorry, but not a Kevin Smith fan, I find his stuff offensive.

Sam stuck to Frodo because of a DIFFERENT kind of love! A BROTHERLY affection of friendship.... bear in mind PLEASE the times that Tolkien grew up in, and in those day, homosexuality was deeply frowned on, and Tolkien was a Christian, he would not have approved of that theory I am sure.

[devilsgrin]

taking it a little seriously Smoothassilk.

I'd say it was more a cameraderie than brotherly affection. Tolkien had survived WWI and survived mostly through the bonds he developed with his trench-mates - i mean fellow soldiers. .

Also Sam and Bilbo don't have much in common at all... aside from both loving frodo and both wearing the ring. Bilbo was a fairly rich hobbit before his adventures - hence the Sackville-Bagginses desire to get ahold of Bag End - it was the equivalent of an Engligh Manor House belonging to one of the not quite aristocracy. (the true aristocracy of the Shire being the Tooks and the Brandybucks - to whom Bilbo was related quite closely... the Old Took was his maternal grandafther wasn't he?)
Sam was selfless, Bilbo was rather selfish, though he ended up much tempered and more generous. However he did really only choose one heir and he did have many cousins... Merry and Pippin being just two of them.

[SpaceShip]

I loved Sam. Has any one of you ever found such a faithful friend? Even when he was treated so badly by Frodo, he still never gave him up. I'm sure that most of us would have given up on Frodo if that had been us.

[Nesacat]

I'd say Sam was a little of both and maybe he was meant to reflect the hero in everyday people. Small people if you wish. People not normally seen as being heroic and from whom heroic deeds are not expected at all. Perhaps it takes some measure of simplicity to go through so much in the face of seeming futility.

Sam was not your typical hero. He was a very, very average person. He cared about his garden and was often unsure of himself. He carried a box with salt in it because it was something that mattered even though he knew he was going to places where such a thing would be more than useless. He's like every single one of us. He walked steadily through the books doing what had to be done each time and never straying from his set goal which was to watch over Frodo.

Sam's is every single one of those people who keeps all the tiny cogs and wheels of the universe turning and working and moving along. And like all those people he has it in him to perform great deeds when there is a deep need for it.

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Im coming in late to this conversation so Im just going to add my two cents in....

When I was 12 and had notions of chivalry and honor dancing through my head I read the Hobbit then the LotR and I remember thinking....Everyone has a duty in this book, a charge given to them by circumstance or by blood...no one really chooses to do the heroic thing. Aragorn is the King of Gondor returned, Gimli and Legs are charged by their respective lieges, Gandalf has his baggage, Frodo has the onus of family legacy, but Sam has none of that (and for the record Merry and Pippin werent included because I dont think they ever understood what they were getting into). He was the only one who made a concious choice to make a sacrifice for the sake of the world. While his deeds wont ring through the ages like Legolas or Gimli or even Frodo, he was the anvil against which the evil of the ring was broken. His sacrifice and sense of duty are the ideals that true heroes aspire to.

[Marky Lazer]

Not totally true, Aegon, about the "while his deeds wont ring through the ages".

Sam did get honoured, was the Mayor for seven times, got to rebuild the Shire, his children took up the name Gardner. So, his deeds where known, at least in the Shire, which was the place he cared about the most in the first place.

That said, I agree with your point that he was a hero for never turning back home earlier.

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Im talking about the history books and renown throughout the world and how things will get told....really its just semantics when you look at it.

He wont and hasnt gotten the "props" like Aragorn and even Frodo (cause lets be honest, if it were the real world the ring-bearer would be the one who would get the acclaim and Sam would be known as the guy that helped the ring-bearer)

Why must there be two choices between Hero and Simpleton....I think his title should be "Samwise Gamgee--Heroic Simpleton" and be done with it.

[devilsgrin]

Originally Posted by Aegon the Unworthy

Im talking about the history books and renown throughout the world and how things will get told....really its just semantics when you look at it.

He wont and hasnt gotten the "props" like Aragorn and even Frodo (cause lets be honest, if it were the real world the ring-bearer would be the one who would get the acclaim and Sam would be known as the guy that helped the ring-bearer)

Why must there be two choices between Hero and Simpleton....I think his title should be "Samwise Gamgee--Heroic Simpleton" and be done with it.

agreed. compared to real world, sam is kind of like the sherpas that get an explorer to the top of Everest. They don't get the acclaim for it, its the daring adventurer who braved the perils of Everest that get the publicity. the sherpas (sam) might get a mention, but its the adventurer (Frodo) who gets the credit.

On another note, IN the Shire, its not Frodo who gets the recognition, it Merry, Pippin and Sam. The wider world knows what frodo did and its importance, but to the simple people of the shire (simple not stupid) its the obvious heroics of the others that earned their admiration.
Also, wasn't Frodo Deputy Mayor during the initial rebuilding, whilst the old Mayor recovered from imprisonment. So if not acknowledged for his heroism, Frodo is recognised as the best choice to lead the Shire before he himself stepped away from office and went into seclusion.

[Telperaca]

Samwise Gamgee.
I think he's a hero.
I don't think that Frodo would have had much of a chance to reaching his so called destination without Sam. He's been there for Frodo as a gardner, pot and pan carrier, and also as a friend - a precious gem.

[El_L1]

hero and simpleton

[Arien]

He´s a hero.
He help´s Frodo. Without him, Frode hadn´t finished his application and middle earth had been lost.. ^^

[Boaz]

Sam, in my opinion, is the foil for Boromir. And I think each is judged best in the light of the other.

Boromir, son of Denethor son of Ecthelion of the House of Hurin, was the privileged, educated, most highly trained son of the Numenoreans. He was groomed to lead. He was hand picked by his father and acclaimed by the populace to be the hero of the age. Boromir's talents were not to be wasted on the mundane skirmishing along the border, Faramir could handle that. No, Boromir's entire life preparation was to lead the host of Gondor and if at all possible to take down the Lord of the Nazgul and thwart the plans of Sauron.

Sam was the uneducated son of a gardener from the backwater Shire. He was trained to tend flowers and vegetable plants. He'd never traveled more than a few miles from his birthplace. He knew nothing of the political situation of Middle-earth, the Grand Alliances, and the tremendous costs to have kept Sauron at bay to date. His father's greatest expectations for Sam was to someday find a wife and hopefully be kept on as the Baggins' gardner when the Gaffer passed on.

For a moment, I must contrast both to Prince Hal in Henry IV. When the play opens, Hal is a slackard. He shirks his duties. He consorts with drunks and thieves. He disdains mundane tasks. Hal claims that he's waiting for a moment that is worthy of him to really show what he can do. And miracle of miracles, the excact situation that Hal requires arises. A rebellion of Mortimer and Percy, led by Hotspur, threatens to engulf House Bolingbroke. With neither training nor preparation, Hal raises an army, defeats the rebels, and slays the vicious Hotspur himself.

I have to say Prince Hal's character is pure fantasy. Tolkien's characters of Boromir and Sam are grounded in practical reality.

Boromir claimed the quest for Isildur's Bane for himself. But once he found himself not as Isildur reborn, but as common soldier, Boromir becomes surly and morose. The tedium of traveling with halflings, wizards, foreigners who do not appreciate the Gondorians sacrifices, and the man who will replace him as the hero of the age really wore Boromir down. If he'd gone out and practiced being a common soldier, guardsman, or gardener maybe he'd have taken it a lot better.

Boromir was the one who should have been Frodo's companion all the way to the end. Instead, he was the traitor.

Sam should have been the first one to falter and go home. Yet, he was the most faithful, the most enduring, and the most consistent of the Fellowship.

The honest, yet simple task of gardening produced in Sam the character to go to the very Crack of Doom. Perhaps it was the basic process of doing the same job every day that prepared Sam for the tedium ahead. Perhaps it was the humility of digging in the dirt while on his knees that kept arrogance from his heart. Perhaps it was his ignorance of the danger that allowed him to bravely face forward. Perhaps it was just the fact that he promised himself to go with Frodo.

Don't get me wrong, I love the way Boromir attempts to atone for his sin. He gave his life for Merry and Pippin. Think about it... the Uruk-hai were under strict orders to capture halflings and return as soon as possible... the smaller orcs just wanted to kill to avenge their losses. But the Uruk-hai commanded, and if Boromir had fled (he could have rationalized this thinking I am Denethor's heir, I am the Captain of Gondor, I must get word to Minas Tirith, I'm sorry but I can't endanger my own life for two moronic midgets) I think Ugluk would have let him go. But Boromir stayed and died as an apology and to pay the debt that he'd owe Frodo for saving Gondor.

I don't like to characterize Sam as a simpleton. Uneducated? Yes. Stupid? No. It was Sam who refused to go back early. It was Sam who fought Shelob. It was Sam who refused the Ring. It was Sam who planned the assault on Orodruin. It was Sam who starved himself to get Frodo to Mount Doom. It was Sam who brought in Tom Cotton to lead the Hobbits. It was Sam who used Galadriel's gift for his own people. If Sam's an idiot, then we need more Sams immediately.

The lesson for us is to do the small things... to not shirk the menial tasks of everyday. Just doing the smallest of tasks is practicing faithfulness... and practice makes perfect. Hudson Taylor once said, something along the lines of, "Small things are small things, but faithfulness with a small thing is a big thing."