Why TOS is better than TNG

[dvo47p]

Star Trek Needs New Producers
http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue339/letters.html

Dave Richmond ("Star Trek Has Lost Touch With Fans") kindly tells us that if we don't like Star Trek, we don't have to watch it. Also, that the show is purely for entertainment, purposes. Wow, what a revelation for all Science Fiction Weekly readers. He goes on to tell us that violence, sex and derogatory language run rampant in today's TV, and that this has become the social norm in television production.

I don't know what he's watching, but he needs to broaden his channel package. I would, however, concede that U.S. couch fodder TV has become disturbingly ass-centered. Be it supposedly good guys threatening to kick the bad guy's ass, authority figures claiming to own someone's ass, or what passes for news featuring sycophantic reporters kissing political ass. Ass is everywhere, and personally I'd like it wiped!

But back to Star Trek. I was entertained by Dave's assertion that Enterprise has evolved into a very watchable show (if you can ignore all of the time-line discrepancies). Huh? If I'm reading him right, what he's saying is that in order for the show to be watchable, the producers are to be excused for insulting the intelligence of the audience, and ignoring series lore built up over the past 40 years! Is Dave on his own here, or am I seeing the emergence of a trend, like ass TV, only more insidious? What he seems to be saying is that we shouldn't care because we don't have to watch.

What is this attitude of laying down for the machine to roll right over? Surely, if a series is bad, yet being propped up by a corporation, then the very least they can do is fire the clowns who've done the damage, and give some new talent a chance. But how would the suits ever be prompted to try such strategy, if everyone moved on and stopped complaining? If that happened, then we'd be asking the question, how many Paramount producers does it take to make Star Trek popular? To which the answer would be 10. One to produce, and the other nine to shout "Wooo, good job!"

Nathan Brazil
nathanbrazil@freeuk.com

[ray gower]

And I thought I was doing pretty nicely on my own!

Tracing that letter back to the one that prompted the response by Dave Richmond (AFAIK NOT ours) comes one simple sentence that sums up my stance "The interactions and dialogue scripting between the show's main characters [Enterprise] were stiff and unemotional."
How watchable Enterprise is in Season 3 I cannot comment upon. I have not seen it yet.

Most of the rest however I do not really see as an issue, they can all be levelled at TOS with as much validity as anything that has come since and is covered in our other threads on 'What is Wrong with Trek?' and 'How to Improve Trek'?

[Dave]

Originally posted by ray gower
Tracing that letter back to the one that prompted the response by Dave Richmond (AFAIK NOT ours)

LOL

Dave wishes to make it clear that the views and opinions expressed are not his, and that he is in no way associated with any person, product or organization that may be referred to as "Dave Richmond." Any communication should be directed to the author and not to Dave.

[markpud]

Originally posted by dvo47p
Star Trek Needs New Producers
http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue339/letters.html

Dave Richmond ("Star Trek Has Lost Touch With Fans") kindly tells us that if we don't like Star Trek, we don't have to watch it.

Where Enterprise is concerned, I don't like it and I don't watch it, mission accomplished?

[Dave]

Enterprise has just signed up Manny Coto (Odyssey 5) as an executive producer. You can't say that they aren't trying. I expect great things to come from him. And John Shiban's (ex-X Files) writing made it's mark last year too!

And I still don't agree with Ray about the acting. It may have been more over the top in TOS but never better. Those Cardassians and Ferengi in DS9 were covered in rubber, with only chins and mouths exposed, yet they gave great performances. (Makes the Gorn look like a piece of wood!)

Sorry, but the Dominion War Arc stories were the best Trek ever, the 5th and 6th Seasons of TNG were the best seasons ever, and the 3rd Season of Enterprise looks like it will be unmissable too.

That's not to say TOS doesn't hold a special place in my heart. It's my childhood memories of TV scifi, but there is just no comparison between it and today's TV.

And comparing TV to theatre is like comparing a car to an aircraft, both take you on a journey, but you cannot and would never replace one with the other.

[dvo47p]

He penned a early yawner, of Enterprise.
The episode was called "Similitude", I think it's a drug for insomnia or is that called Enterprise as a generic?

[dvo47p]

Hire Ronald D. Moore he did 'All Good Things' & lots of DS: Nine, and he needs a job!

Sorry about three posts in a row Ray, I was getting work emails & phone calls.

[dvo47p]

Writer - filmography
(2000s) (1990s) (1980s)

1. "Odyssey 5" (2002) TV Series (creator) (writer)
2. Odyssey 5 (2002) (TV) (creator)
3. "Enterprise" (2001) TV Series (writer) (episode 3.10 "Similitude")
... aka "Star Trek: Enterprise" (2003) (USA: new title)


Sorry about three posts in a row Ray, I was getting work emails & phone calls.

That Delete Now thing did not work, Ray

Oh yeah don't buy a cheap Pop up blocker, use Netscape 7.1 & blow $25 bucks on a good Popup blocker.

One more thing wait before you repost, take it from Mr. Three in a row & do all the above!

[ray gower]

Originally posted by Dave
Enterprise has just signed up Manny Coto (Odyssey 5) as an executive producer. You can't say that they aren't trying. I expect great things to come from him. And John Shiban's (ex-X Files) writing made it's mark last year too!

Don't know what happens in season 3 of Enterprise yet, but I do agree that some of season 2's stories were/are better than season 1, but that was true of Voyager too! The quality of the story-lines I would not question (what they do with them perhaps?).

Originally posted by Dave
And I still don't agree with Ray about the acting. It may have been more over the top in TOS but never better. Those Cardassians and Ferengi in DS9 were covered in rubber, with only chins and mouths exposed, yet they gave great performances. (Makes the Gorn look like a piece of wood!)

I think the Gorn probably was a piece of wood! But in fairness CGI did not exist then.
With view to the guest star Cardassian and Ferrengi actors, I think it would be fair to observe that in comparison to the regular cast members, they were overacted!
It can be no coincidence that we could say more about the psychology and what makes those characters tick after their often brief appearances than we can about the humans who appear week in week out. That also applies to many of the other guest races that have appeared over the years!

If I may however draw a more modern show for comparison, I wish to draw peoples attention to Firefly.

Firefly blunders around the galaxy getting itself into potentially fatal scrapes and proceeds to get itself out again.
To mis-quote Markpud:-

Firefly plots generally revolve around the ship (and/or crew) being crippled and Mal instructing Zoe to fix it, cue "I think your brain is damaged, Sir" etc, with a sub-plot of someone thumping somebody.

Where the difference lies in the scenarios is that we see the characters sweat and react with fear, desperation even cowardice.
Compare that to Trek.
Enterprise and her crew is about to be crushed in something unpleasant. Net result, generaly, everybody (except Data/Odo/the EMH Doctor/T'Pol/some other alien/the weeks hero <delete as applic>) take their happy pils and watch in a comatose state.

And comparing TV to theatre is like comparing a car to an aircraft, both take you on a journey, but you cannot and would never replace one with the other.

Yes there are a lot of physical differneces and stage must ultimately be a more difficult place to get the point across. Things have to be over exagerated to be seen in the back row, but how about those that watch TV on a 12" B&W portable (not me)?

Isn't acting the transport for emotion?
An explosion on the TV is merely a firework going off. Don't the actors have to show what the result of the firework really means?

[ray gower]

Originally posted by dvo47p
He penned a early yawner, of Enterprise.
The episode was called "Similitude", I think it's a drug for insomnia or is that called Enterprise as a generic?

LOL!

Sorry about three posts in a row Ray, I was getting work emails & phone calls.

I think you managed a nice recovery from your original double post DVO!

And I thought Ron Moore was nadgering Battlestar Galactica?

[dvo47p]

Everybody has heard the old line about 'leave them wanting more".
Ok we need a rest from Star Trek, Spike TV has ST: TNG & ST: DS9, The Scifi Channel has TOS.

Who wants ST: Voyager, maybe Nick @ nite?

So maybe no Trek is better than bad Trek? (why is that question mark back their?)

Majel the queen of Roddenberry, and bad taste, but the master of the Gene estate, might disagree, but we kinda know she is in it for the money, not the fans.

[dvo47p]

Originally posted by ray gower LOL! I think you managed a nice recovery from your original double post DVO!And I thought Ron Moore was nadgering Battlestar Galactica?

Yes indeed, Ray. Ronald D. Moore has nothing after Battlestar Galactica 2003 @ imdb.com> He was working for his old Trek mentor Michael Pillar @ USANetwork, He was listed as a consultant or something, not as a writer? Pillar is/or was doing that take off of Stephen King novel The Dead Zone.

Btw: USA started The Scifi Channel, Moore left USA to do an episode of Carnivale for HBO.

Good call Ray. indeed Ron D. Moore did go public about Berman & Braga needed to move aside on Enterprise. So whom do you think Ron had in mind Re:ST: Enterprise, needing new management.

Any bets on whom Ron D. Moore had in mind?

Yeah, that double post looks a bit silly, thanks for your bon mots, Ray.

[Dave]

Originally posted by dvo47p
He penned a early yawner, of Enterprise.
The episode was called "Similitude"

So, episode 10 of Season 3 is an 'early' episode to you!!

I won't get to see any of Season 3 for another 2 months yet, but I wasn't aware that 10 episodes had even been made yet.

Look I just can't compete in an argument with time travellers. If you have the inside future knowledge on how long 'Enterprise' actually lasts why not let us all know?

As for the Ferengi and Cardassian characters all being played by theatre trained actors -- you have me there Ray, it's true!

As for Ronald D Moore, he was responsible for a lot of the development of the Klingons in TNG, but other than that I've no idea about his work. I never watched 'Roswell' and I don't think I'm going to like 'Battlestar Galactica'. But 'Enterprise' ought to have more Klingon stories and no one could be better for those.

[ray gower]

Originally posted by Dave
As for the Ferengi and Cardassian characters all being played by theatre trained actors -- you have me there Ray, it's true!

Wouldn't know if the ladies and gentlemen in question are theatre trained actors or not.
Merely observe they put more effort into portraying who and what they are, so they become more interesting and understandable?


More Klingons in Enterprise- Might lead to some good stories.
Isn't there supposed to be a Federation/Klingon war around now, according to Trek Lore?

[dvo47p]

Originally posted by Dave
So, episode 10 of Season 3 is an 'early' episode to you!!

Sorry, I forgot to let you in on that I'm big over @ Paramount, so big I see 'em before they make em.

Re: Ron D. Moore, a protege of Michael Piller one of the creators of ST: DS9. Before then on ST: TNG & the guy that kick started Ron’s career. This stuff is sorta in a timeline @ imdb.com> ya need some inside dope like Pillar bringing Ron to help then he excelled with ST: TNG’s All Good Things & the movie Generations, some die hard fans do blame Ron D. Moore for killing off Kirk, or the less than blaze of glory befitting one of science fictions best known heros, should have taken out the Borg, all the Borg. As well as several million other assorted bad guys, You catch my drift.................