Stephen Baxter has used public domain material without acknowledgment - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

PALoMINE · 30th June 2003, 02:54 AM

Hi, I have recently discovered that the science fiction author, Stephen Baxter, author of such fine works as Titan, Moonseed, Voyage and Ring, has used a transcript from a 1982 British Airways flight in his novel Moonseed, nearly verbatim. I have written an open letter to Mr Baxter and posted it on the following URL:
http://home.austarnet.com.au/lars/baxter/index.htm

I would be interested to hear people's opinion of this, given the obvious lack of coincidence in the wording of the text.

Please note also that the verbatim quotes used in my open letter do contain swearing (cursing). They are used only because they appeared in his novel and in the British Airways transcript, so please try not to get too offended by it.

ray gower · 30th June 2003, 09:15 AM

I am not sure there is any case to answer, without having read the book.

Whilst the extract does mirror the transcript, we are looking at a mere 50 words in over 70,000, and as you have observed the details are a matter of public record.

If the rest of the story mirrors and builds upon the events of the flight, then courtesy would have some form of acknowledgement on the lines of, 'Inspired by the events of.' but no law requires it.

PALoMINE · 30th June 2003, 10:50 AM

Mr Baxter certainly doesn't have a legal case to answer, as there is nothing illegal about using public domain material in a book, but surely quoting the source of such material is the correct thing to do, even though it is only 70 words or so.

I believe there is a case of "creative drought" to answer for. What would motivate an author to purloin such a piece for his novel? Briefly, the context in which it is set is a near future science fiction novel with the core plot involving the earth decaying physically due to the "Moonseed", causing extreme seismic activity leading to volcanic eruption, tectonic plate ruptures and hence, to the 747 in the novel miraculously suffering a similar fate, right down the flight levels, verbal insults and technical malfunction of the real British Airways flight. He obviously needed a bit of a filler for the flight Jane ( a key character) was taking to pep up a slow beginning, and it was the hapless BA captain's words of terror that he used. Aeroplanes fly through volcanic dust quite rarely, but it happens. But why nick the words of a real life event?

I think, for an experienced author like Stephen Baxter, it is poor etiquette.

ray gower · 30th June 2003, 10:32 PM

Would not suggest it is a major dose of creative drought, just a lump in the process. When I am writing, I often find that a sentence or paragraph seen somewhere can be enough to see me start thinking in a new direction and/or over a problem.

If writers were to acredit every paragraph, sentence and stanza they have borrowed from different sources, I suggest the credits could well end up significantly longer than the book!
There is already too much make weight rubbish in the prose, another 700 pages of credits would kill it entirely.

Perhaps a credit to the events might be in order. I doubt if the small amount involved would be picked up by 99.9% of those intimately involved with the events, let alone the general public (if you were involved I tip my hat to you) but overall I don't think it is enough to complain loudly about.

30th June 2003, 02:54 AM	#1 (permalink)
PALoMINE Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 2	Stephen Baxter has used public domain material without acknowledgment Hi, I have recently discovered that the science fiction author, Stephen Baxter, author of such fine works as Titan, Moonseed, Voyage and Ring, has used a transcript from a 1982 British Airways flight in his novel Moonseed, nearly verbatim. I have written an open letter to Mr Baxter and posted it on the following URL: http://home.austarnet.com.au/lars/baxter/index.htm I would be interested to hear people's opinion of this, given the obvious lack of coincidence in the wording of the text. Please note also that the verbatim quotes used in my open letter do contain swearing (cursing). They are used only because they appeared in his novel and in the British Airways transcript, so please try not to get too offended by it.

30th June 2003, 10:50 AM	#3 (permalink)
PALoMINE Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 2	Maybe no case to answer, but.... Mr Baxter certainly doesn't have a legal case to answer, as there is nothing illegal about using public domain material in a book, but surely quoting the source of such material is the correct thing to do, even though it is only 70 words or so. I believe there is a case of "creative drought" to answer for. What would motivate an author to purloin such a piece for his novel? Briefly, the context in which it is set is a near future science fiction novel with the core plot involving the earth decaying physically due to the "Moonseed", causing extreme seismic activity leading to volcanic eruption, tectonic plate ruptures and hence, to the 747 in the novel miraculously suffering a similar fate, right down the flight levels, verbal insults and technical malfunction of the real British Airways flight. He obviously needed a bit of a filler for the flight Jane ( a key character) was taking to pep up a slow beginning, and it was the hapless BA captain's words of terror that he used. Aeroplanes fly through volcanic dust quite rarely, but it happens. But why nick the words of a real life event? I think, for an experienced author like Stephen Baxter, it is poor etiquette.

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30th June 2003, 09:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
ray gower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gwynedd Posts: 3,579	I am not sure there is any case to answer, without having read the book. Whilst the extract does mirror the transcript, we are looking at a mere 50 words in over 70,000, and as you have observed the details are a matter of public record. If the rest of the story mirrors and builds upon the events of the flight, then courtesy would have some form of acknowledgement on the lines of, 'Inspired by the events of.' but no law requires it.

30th June 2003, 10:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
ray gower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gwynedd Posts: 3,579	Would not suggest it is a major dose of creative drought, just a lump in the process. When I am writing, I often find that a sentence or paragraph seen somewhere can be enough to see me start thinking in a new direction and/or over a problem. If writers were to acredit every paragraph, sentence and stanza they have borrowed from different sources, I suggest the credits could well end up significantly longer than the book! There is already too much make weight rubbish in the prose, another 700 pages of credits would kill it entirely. Perhaps a credit to the events might be in order. I doubt if the small amount involved would be picked up by 99.9% of those intimately involved with the events, let alone the general public (if you were involved I tip my hat to you) but overall I don't think it is enough to complain loudly about.