Iron Council by China Mieville

[Zadok]

I'm kind of suprised that there are a number of people saying that Mieville's characters are unsympathetic or hard to connect with. Especially in the The Scar. Aside from Tanner I thought Bellis was plenty sympathetic. What is it about her that people seem not to like? That she was rude to people? I don't know, I'm having a hard time seeing it.

As for Iron Council, I can see how certain characters could make the reader grow cold. Personally, I found Ori pretty sympathetic, and it was these small sections of the early part of the novel that kept me reading on.

I was a bit disappointed in the first half of this book, especially with the extensive Judah background sections, but it really picked up steam in the 2nd half and I thought the ending was well done.

[a|one]

I'm suprised that so many of you disliked the ending to IC. I haven't read PSS but having just completed the Scar I found little to complain about by comparison.

[Apologies in advance if I'm retreading the same ground as others but I haven't read this thread in its entirety.]

I found the ending to IC not only fulfilling and complete, but in a startling break from mainstream fantasy it actually held meaning. While I would also argue that any written word holds meaning of a sort this ending in particular held vast meaning, I would say for anyone that lives on the planet earth. In a world oppressed by propaganda and corporate powers not all that unlike the political engine of New Crobuzon it seemed to me to make a very clear point. Some may argue that it was a meaningless gesture, and destined to have very little impact. But I would argue otherwise, history shows again and again that while the masses may always posses the power to change, very few in comfort will devote their lives to it without a clear and present indication of prior success. While it seems a very rational standpoint, especially for this with families and lives outside their own to live for, it is also the standpoint those in authority would wish us to have. While we of the first world do enjoy far more power and privilige than those depicted in Mievilles works, at the same time our thoughts and desires are far more controlled.

All told I think Mieville has managed to make a very relevent statement, and one we would all do well to consider.

[Rane Longfox]

My problem with the ending wasn't what happened, but the explanation behind it. It was well established that the main caracter (who's name I've long forgotten) gave the energy to his creations and stuff from his own life source, or whatever it was - I'm fuzzy on the detail, having not read the book for at least a year and a half. The way it was all explained though, made it impossible. The story was fine, but the mechanics of it simply wouldn't work...

[Ice fyre]

Hi there


Spoiler Warning folks



Read Iron Council a wee while ago and I thought the ending was very poetic very sad even a little, dare I say it, futile. There they are stuck like fly's in amber so near yet so far from the revolution that they yearned for.

I know we all read books for escapism but maybe we should also read them to make ourselves think. The the casual brutality of this world is disturbing and fascinating in equal measure.

I enjoyed all three, weird and wonderfull trips into dark fantasy. But also very sad books.

[Fanthony]

I agree with Rane that the endings are disappointing. I read Perdido Street Station and very much enjoyed the characterisation and the world in which it was set. I had a go at Iron Council and, though I like the idea and imagery, am still struggling with it. I do, however, love the world in which these stories are set. I'd particularly like to know more about the characters of Perdido Street and I so wanted the artist/insect girl to survive.

I'm not sure if links are allowed, but a friend of mine created an image based on The Iron Council that some might enjoy: http://freespace.virgin.net/stephen....roncouncil.jpg

[Lith]

Okay, a little background first- I haven't read any of his works before, and knew next to nothing (okay, nothing) about the author, other than that his name kept creeping up as one of the best new lights of the field. So I picked this book up and was rather excited to start it. Which perhaps is why it made me so angry.

I can't figure out what makes this guy worth note- the narrative is nearly incomprehensible, and felt like little more than a pile of made-up and obscure English words (a bad combination, by the way- I never knew if he was making up something or if I should reach for the dictionary). The characterizations were nearly non-existant- after 200 pages (the point at which I quit) I didn't feel like I knew anything about any of the characters, despite whatever background the author gave them. The creatures (to me anyway) felt like something out of a Final Fantasy game, rather than being imaginative, and I never got the feel of any of the areas he was describing, in spite of his long descriptions of geology and flora.

Can't comment on the politics, as I haven't and in all likelihood never will finish the book. There was just too much gore and sexual content that was offensive. I tried to finish this novel- most books only get fifty pages of my time, but I just can't- there were some parts of the story that were simply too depraved.

[ravenus]

Yeah, if you're squeamish about gore, Mieville's not for you. From what I've read of him (4 books so far, but not Iron Council), he doesn't make up words but has a frighteningly vast vocabulary (and apparently even uses a lot of them in actual conversation). I've found the character writing in his New Crobuzon books (Perdido Street Station and The Scar) quite exceptional, not derived from the usual RPG/Tolkien crock, and a huge part of the reason I consider him a great author.

[Lith]

I didn't mean to say that he made up descriptive words, but that it is sometimes very difficult to discern between a race, character, or place name, and an unusual word (given that he doesn't "introduce" his world to the reader).

[Sathai]

I finished this book today. I thought it was an interesting read. I liked the different characters and races in it, and also the political storyline. The only parts I didn't like were the combat scenes, I got bored when reading those. I also wish there has been a map, it would have been nice to have a frame of reference to where the Iron Council was travelling through. Also an appendix describing the different races would have been helpful.

Anyways, this book has intrigued me enough that I would like to read Perdido Street Station and The Scar.

[Ice fyre]

The nature of these three books is very very adult, its a very shocking and brutal world that these folk live in. It is vary sad lith that you didnt enjoy these books. I have read all three and yes the sexual scenes can make one's eyes smart but once you get through the dense and often violent content at the start, about a third of the way in the books start to make sense.

That said these are not for everyone but I would urge you to give em another go. Yes they are brutal nasty but quite fascinating. China handles very volatile subjects in a head on kind of fashon.

[speedingslug]

The Iron Council was good but not as good as the first two IMHO. I have to agree I didn't like the jumping around in time to develop the characters more, but it was necessary. I was sad to hear the constructs, at first I thought this what the Iron council was going to be. I never really got the train idea it seemed a bit pointless did it say somewhere that they were traveling at more than ten miles per hour I find the impossible, they would of been better to construct tracks for the train and where did all the wood and steel come from ?

This book left me with more question than the others, the end was also a bit of an anti climax. But lets face it China still owns most other authors

[Ursa major]

I think the idea was that they kept reusing the rails and sleepers (US: ties) as they went along; I assume that where sleepers were broken, they replaced them from whatever timber they found along the way. (The book may have explained this, but my memory of a book's content doesn't cope well with lots of details. )

I agree that it doesn't appear to be the best way of travelling about the place, but with one locomotive and many carriages and wagons (cars), it's hard to imagine a system without guides or rails. (Of course, the Aussies on this network will tell us all about road trains - well, let them! )

[speedingslug]

They must of had a huge supply of rails which would not have been as easy to make as sleepers. plus carrying them from the back to the front would be a monumental task, to gain any real speed.

[LyannaWolfBlood]

I really liked the concept of this - it's the only Mieville book I've read so far. The legend v. reality aspect of the train, the characters (which I did find generally sympathetic), the end... they were all intriguing. And odd, but interesting book, and I'd like to read more of Mieville's work.

[speedingslug]

I think you will find PSS an The Scar a better read, I know I did.