Other Neo's on screen is previous versions of The One? - Page 2 - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

skyron · 2nd June 2003, 11:11 PM

yes that makes some sencse.

In an other post, I refer to a theme in "reloaded" that machines just do what they are supposed to do. The just follow the intent of the programer. Agents are programs with the the job of hunting down those that may do harm to the matrix and to gather intelligence on Zion.
The machines, as a trade off for allowing the 'necessity of incorporating choice into the matrix are willing to let the1% of anomalous human dissidents leave to the real world. But over the course of a few generations, each Zion begins to threaten the very foundations of the Matrix and the machines cannot tolerate that because of (i belive) the fear that this will endanger the human life in the "batery farms" that the machines are in a very real way bound by thier seminal programing, obligated to preserve. ( in other words the unlimate purpose of the machines is the preservation of there human creators.)

So yes you may have something there, Jkaiyummie. Agent Smith said as much that Neo imparted some code onto him when they last faught. but...
A/ Smith can't understand how to deal with the scrap of humanity (choice) he has been given and
B/ still feels obligated to carry out his original programing. Just before the "Burly Brawl" Smith speaks about being greatful to Neo for setting him free but not having a pupose makes an existance worth nothing. His purpose is still kicking dissident butt.

So now smith is free to pass from the Matrix into the the "Back Door" level where he wasn't supposed to go and even into the real world through "whatshisname"...In a sense, he is a threat to Humanity AND the Machine world because he is the ultimate rogue program; the ultimate self replicating virus with no understanding of the true intent of the Archetect's master plan that of preserving humanity.

cersei · 3rd June 2003, 01:00 AM

Psst, his name is Bane

"His purpose is still kicking dissident butt" I like that line

pkgrl · 3rd June 2003, 04:06 AM

I'm so stoked that new people keep showing up here!

Hi, Jkaiyummie! :wave:

Edited to add: Just found the article cersei mentioned. Here's the actual url: http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm Great article, btw.

Quote:

Originally posted by andernout
...its interesting to go back to the original, when the agents first interagate mr. anderson...right before you enter that room, you can see it on a whole whack of little monitors...could that have been the architects room, watching in on it??

Good point. I'll have to check it out again with that in mind.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jkaiyummie
Smith is the evil that the Machines seems to avoid. Well, I got this after watching the whole ending credits and finally watching the preview for Revolutions. Neo and Smith facing each other in the rain and flanked by millions of Smiths on the side. Neo says something like 'it ends tonight' and Smith like 'We've been waiting for you'.

Perhaps this is the true purpose of Neo. To save the humans AND machines and make them live together side by side by understanding one another. Hence the Oracle saying 'making a believer out of me'. She believes Neo can pull it off. Well just a thought.

Exactly! And good on ya for combining theories into a coherant "I think when Neo destroyed or went inside Smith on the first movie Neo somehow 'inserted' that 'Splinter' program into Smith and hence Smith's new abilities as well as 'freedom'."

I think Smith is getting a taste of what it feels like to be human... even if Bane's "real world" body is inside another level of the Matrix. That's why he cuts his hand... he's facinated by the new sensation of pain... which the Bane "program" feels, but he never has before.

Quote:

Originally posted by skyron
So now smith is free to pass from the Matrix into the the "Back Door" level where he wasn't supposed to go...

Yeah, I wondered about that. Why weren't there any agents there? This totally explains it though.

Cersei, you're never too new to welcome newbies!

And thanks for the link. I'll go check it out.

I don't buy the Asimov robotics angle, though. I don't think the machines are trying to preserve human life because they have to, but only because, as Neo said, "We need machines and they need us." The machines simply need humans, and what they have now is a controlled population of them... the "meat computer" that was mentioned earlier. :crazy:

Rush · 26th June 2003, 05:43 PM

Another first time poster here. I have found many of the thoughts in this thread interesting to say the least. Several references have been made to the splinter in neo's mind. I had an interesting thought. This splinter makes neo different. He cannot accept the rules that normal people are bound by. Therefore he can bend and break many rules. Smith being a program is inherently going to be bound by rules as is the basis for all programs. When neo "killed" smith in the first one i believe that neo passed aling the "splinter" to smith which explains why smith is now able to break the rules common to all users of the matrix. He may still be a program but he is now not bound by the common rules of the matrix. I think of the matrix itself as an operating system wherein is layed the foundation for all other programs to run. Smith now splintered no longer is bound to this o/s and its rules.
And as for the screens in the architects room i believe that neo is the only neo, those images on the screen may be what the matrix expects neo to do. As per the architects line that "denial is the most predictable of human reactions". The matrix may be playing out all the possible outcomes of what neo is thinking. But as we all know neo is not a stickler for the rules and does what they do not expect. He does not take the utilitarian stance and do what is needed for his country but does for himself and trinity. but anyway i hope my ramblings make sense.

pkgrl · 27th June 2003, 12:19 PM

You made perfect sense, Rush, and welcome aboard! :wave:

But I think the rules of the Matrix do still apply to Smith, or he'd be able to fly like Neo. Neo'd never be able to get away from him/them.

And I think that the metaphor of the "splinter in your mind" applies to everyone who has "left" the Matrix... including Cypher, Trinity, and Morpheus. I think the only thing that makes Neo different from the other rebels is that he's "the One." What exactly caused this, I don't know. It could be a computer program that was applied to him as a baby or child, or something genetic, I still don't know. I'm not sure we'll ever be told, either, because faith is still a very important theme in these films.

I do think that the screens of other "Neos" are all representations of our Neo, though. Whether they are his possible reactions or what the Architect thinks Neo's reactions might be is still unclear.

I do like that there is apparently only one answer to the assertion that "Zion is about to be destroyed..." "Bullsh*t!"

2nd June 2003, 11:11 PM	#16 (permalink)
skyron Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 33	yes that makes some sencse. In an other post, I refer to a theme in "reloaded" that machines just do what they are supposed to do. The just follow the intent of the programer. Agents are programs with the the job of hunting down those that may do harm to the matrix and to gather intelligence on Zion. The machines, as a trade off for allowing the 'necessity of incorporating choice into the matrix are willing to let the1% of anomalous human dissidents leave to the real world. But over the course of a few generations, each Zion begins to threaten the very foundations of the Matrix and the machines cannot tolerate that because of (i belive) the fear that this will endanger the human life in the "batery farms" that the machines are in a very real way bound by thier seminal programing, obligated to preserve. ( in other words the unlimate purpose of the machines is the preservation of there human creators.) So yes you may have something there, Jkaiyummie. Agent Smith said as much that Neo imparted some code onto him when they last faught. but... A/ Smith can't understand how to deal with the scrap of humanity (choice) he has been given and B/ still feels obligated to carry out his original programing. Just before the "Burly Brawl" Smith speaks about being greatful to Neo for setting him free but not having a pupose makes an existance worth nothing. His purpose is still kicking dissident butt. So now smith is free to pass from the Matrix into the the "Back Door" level where he wasn't supposed to go and even into the real world through "whatshisname"...In a sense, he is a threat to Humanity AND the Machine world because he is the ultimate rogue program; the ultimate self replicating virus with no understanding of the true intent of the Archetect's master plan that of preserving humanity.

3rd June 2003, 01:00 AM	#17 (permalink)
cersei Matriculated Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 126	Psst, his name is Bane "His purpose is still kicking dissident butt" I like that line

26th June 2003, 05:43 PM	#19 (permalink)
Rush Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1	Another first time poster here. I have found many of the thoughts in this thread interesting to say the least. Several references have been made to the splinter in neo's mind. I had an interesting thought. This splinter makes neo different. He cannot accept the rules that normal people are bound by. Therefore he can bend and break many rules. Smith being a program is inherently going to be bound by rules as is the basis for all programs. When neo "killed" smith in the first one i believe that neo passed aling the "splinter" to smith which explains why smith is now able to break the rules common to all users of the matrix. He may still be a program but he is now not bound by the common rules of the matrix. I think of the matrix itself as an operating system wherein is layed the foundation for all other programs to run. Smith now splintered no longer is bound to this o/s and its rules. And as for the screens in the architects room i believe that neo is the only neo, those images on the screen may be what the matrix expects neo to do. As per the architects line that "denial is the most predictable of human reactions". The matrix may be playing out all the possible outcomes of what neo is thinking. But as we all know neo is not a stickler for the rules and does what they do not expect. He does not take the utilitarian stance and do what is needed for his country but does for himself and trinity. but anyway i hope my ramblings make sense.

27th June 2003, 12:19 PM	#20 (permalink)
pkgrl Ultimate J/A shipper! Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 2,423	You made perfect sense, Rush, and welcome aboard! :wave: But I think the rules of the Matrix do still apply to Smith, or he'd be able to fly like Neo. Neo'd never be able to get away from him/them. And I think that the metaphor of the "splinter in your mind" applies to everyone who has "left" the Matrix... including Cypher, Trinity, and Morpheus. I think the only thing that makes Neo different from the other rebels is that he's "the One." What exactly caused this, I don't know. It could be a computer program that was applied to him as a baby or child, or something genetic, I still don't know. I'm not sure we'll ever be told, either, because faith is still a very important theme in these films. I do think that the screens of other "Neos" are all representations of our Neo, though. Whether they are his possible reactions or what the Architect thinks Neo's reactions might be is still unclear. I do like that there is apparently only one answer to the assertion that "Zion is about to be destroyed..." "Bullsh*t!"