Reloaded's Ending....(Spoilers) - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

stripes · 25th May 2003, 06:06 PM

I was reading everything discussed in the other thread, and I would like to just take it in another direction concerning just the ending. Spoilers ensure of course.

The architect created the Matrix, he created it in his own perfect image(a Adam and Eve, Garden of Eden symbolism?). Anyway, the architech created this perfect world, but then he realized that in order for it to function properly, he knew humans would only accept it through choice. Of course that is flawed in itself, and the architect realizes this. If you give humans choice(accept the Matrix, or not), some will not adhere to the Matrix, hence, the 1% the Architech refers to now exists. And for this 1% the "real world" was created(Zion).

Now apparently the "one" is prophecied by this 1% batch. Neo(who is prophecied to be the "one") confronts the "source" to save Zion. Heres where it 's confusing: There were 5 Neo's before this one, and the Architect informs Neo that he is a anomoly(as were the others), an error to the 99.9% who have chosen to accept the Matrix. In order to counter this anomoly, the machines have set up this scenario where Neo has a choice, a choice that will save Zion.

When he chooses the door to the right(as he did in the previous five), the Matrix will be destroyed as will Zion. Although after, Neo will be able to reload both the Matrix and Zion from a code that only he knows which the machines have given him. The architech even tells Neo that he will pick a selected amount of females and males to help rebuild Zion, and eventually restart the whole cycle again. Eventually, the architect also mentions that the code will be more visible, and through these continuous cycles, he will be able to rid the Matrix of this anomoly. The previous five were more likely to choose Zion, but this six is overcome by love, hence he chooses the door on the left. Yet whats puzzling about this is that the Architech already knew Neo was going to make this choice, but wasn't the whole point of this was so that Neo would pick the door on the right to continue the usual pattern?

(Note: Corrections are welcomed of course.)

I know this is the jist of it anyway. so Revolutions will be the after effects of this new choice and how it will affect Zion and the Matrix itself. Im curious, why would the architech let Neo make this choice, unless he has something up his sleeve?

I can't wait for Revolutions...

cersei · 27th May 2003, 01:30 AM

Nearly right but this is what I intrepret to be so...

The Architect made the first Matrix which though "perfect" to him was flawed and humans rejected it...hence the "Mother of The Matrix" (and contrary to some, I do not think this is the Oracle since on Neo suggesting her name, the Architect says, "Please!" as if to dismiss that silly notion) suggested a solution where the 1% humans whom would reject The Matrix can be placed into "Zion"...I believe this means a separate programme which though still plugged in, these "rebels" would make the "choice" (an artifical one as it seems, a theme in Reloaded) to be free...

However, depsite his best attempts, this near perfect soution still has an anomaly which turns up eventually...ie Neo...and if left unchecked, this anomaly will threaten the entire Matrix (and hence also Zion/Real world programme) thus all humans...

To solve this, the Oracle progamme is created, which with help of other programmes like Keymaker, guides Neo into this "prophecy" which purpose is NOT to free Zion but rather to guide Neo back to the meet the Architect, where he can be persuaded, due to his inherent love for humanity, to enter the Source door, thus reintegrating his code and allowing a reboot (hence The Matrix Reloaded...such a clever title in hindsight)...

This has already happenend 5 times before in what seems like 100 year cycles (and if war in Animatrix is accurate, then the REAL world must be about year 2600's but it appears to each Matrix like 1900's/2000's and to each Zion rebel as 2100's)...When Neo returns to the source, Zion is destroyed, both literally as those humans plugged into the programme is killed and also represented in Zion by the sentinel attack but Neo can choose 23 humans currently in Matrix Programme (by the way, 23 coz 23 human chromosomes?) to rebuild Zion ie inserted into a new Zion ver 6.0 programme...(hence fulfilling what Morpheus says back in The Matrix about another whom could "manipulate the Matrix and freed the first of us").

What is different this time? Trinity. I believe each reload/version of Matrix has only a few constants inc. Neo & Oracle but others like Morpheus and Trinity changes from version to version (since the Machines do allow them to have "free" runnning otherwise). This time, Neo's love for Trinity overwhelms his love for humanity in general...and even though the Architect purposely shows him that Trinity dying and in fact will die (another constant is the Machines do not seem capable of lying.....neither the Architect or Oracle ever does if you listen to what they say carefully), he still chooses emotion over logic and exits via the Matrix door instead

So this opens up a whole new can of worms since from this point on, things are no longer in Machines control as it had been right up to this point....Neo is changed since returning to the "real world" hence sensing something is wrong and being able to stop the sentinels as such...this causes him to fall into a coma.....

Bane too falls into a coma since he is taken over by Smith (also explaining why Smith can inhabit the "real world" since it is only another programme) he too can manipulate the real world which he did in foiling the counter-attack or saving himself from the sentinels...using this ability (first time anyway) seems to cause one to fall into a coma, perhaps as a failsafe by the machines as humans not meant to alter the real world programme..

Smith too is a new unknown element for the Machines...he is a self-replicating programme ie a virus and hence could seriously threaten the entire system since if left unchecked, could theoratically take over everyone in the Matrix/Zion.

stripes · 27th May 2003, 05:24 AM

That was explained quite nicely. What does this all mean? From what I read of your post, its quite simple: To counter the threat called "Neo", a solution is presented. Neo holds the mathematical code that restarts everything, and I assume the architech wants to crack this code, becasue cracking this code will make the Matrix exact, accurate, mathematically correct without any mathimatical error.

Thats the machines purpose, to rid the Matrix of this anomoly, which, in five cycles thus far, has been succesful. And assuming they are close to cracking the code. But the difference this time is that Neo does something else totally different. This is whats left to be answered, why did the architech allow Neo to have the choice of saving Trinity if he knew this Neo would be different then his predecessors? Since Neo is indeed different, and the architech knows this, he just screwed himself by having Neo choose the door on the left.

Allowing Neo to make this choice eliminates their resource, the human race which will be destroyed by this choice. But then theres another problem added on top of that, Agent Smith!! Now he pretty much corrupted the Matrix as well, cloning the whole human race!(well from what I understand, is this true?)

What is wrong with the architech, this seems like a no-win situation, whats the deal behind all of this? Did he underestimate Neo, the new virus Smith? Thats why Im wondering if he has some sort of trick up his sleeve, no way would the machines put them selves in this position.

But lets not forget that the architech mentions they have other "resources", but still why would they put the fate of humanity in the hands of Neo who pretty much damned them all? Neo just killed their energy source, their batteries.

cersei · 27th May 2003, 05:58 AM

I think there seems to be 2 constants in the Machine World...

1) Machines do not lie. (check everything Architect and Oracle says...none can be proven to have lied)

2) Choice or Free Will is important for Machines to grant humans in order for it all to work

I used to wonder why did the Architect show Neo Trinity dying...but I realise it is precisely because he tires to persuade Neo to return to the Source since Trinity is about to die and in fact will die and nothing he can do to change that (which is NOT a lie since he could not stop her dying despite taking out the bullet but rather has to ressurect her instead). If he did now show him this then the decision to return to the Matrix is easy for Neo since he can be with Trinity....but by persuading Neo that trinity is dead, he may return to Source door instead ....which failed of course since human's greatest strength and weakness is Hope..

Thulium · 27th May 2003, 01:35 PM

I specifically went into a second viewing to pay close attention to everything The Architect had to say and I think I figured out some things...

"The One" (Neo) is the consummation of The Anomoly inherent in the Oracle's version of The Matrix. Neo is not simply a threat to the Machines, he is an integral part of the Matrix. The Matrix can ONLY be reloaded by reinserting the One. I suspect that at least a part of "the kernel" is embedded in Neo in the same or a similar was as virus Smith is embedded into Bane. I THINK that explains Neo's ability to affect the machines in the "Real" world.

This begs the question, "what is the nature of the Anomoly?" The most obvious theme is Choice/Free Will, but also we have issues of Hope and Love. (Faith, Hope, and Love....hm...

The fascinating issue to me is that the Architect has an understanding that the Anomoly is not simply a bug that needs to eliminated. Although the Machines might fear that the Anomoly threatens The Matrix, the Architect and the Oracle know that the Anomoly is crucial to the Matrix' continued operation!

If my assumptions are correct, it explains why the Architect didn't make a greater attempt to persuade Neo to enter the source: The Anomoly, and hence The Matrix, hinges on a choice...the code would be in error and wouldn't work right if the Anomoly wasn't inserted...and the Anomoly is Choice. Ergo, Neo MUST make the choice in order for it to work.

The previous anomolies had been successfully guided into making the "correct" choice, but Neo and Trinity, to quote the Oracle, "had already made their choice". Which reminds me of another interesting point, the fact that Oracle actually recognized the aspects of Choice and Love in determining The One...and she knew that Trinity's choice and Love were also important to The One. So really, Neo is the ultimate fulfillment of all the previous Anomolies!

It's an amazing paradox! ....I love it!!!

Where does that leave us for Revolutions? Well, the future is now completely uncertain. (Although, I think we're expecting a HAPPY ending...) Things look bleak for Zion, and The Matrix itself is likely to be getting pretty unstable soon... So all out war is basically inevitable. The machines definately have a clear numeric advantage. But there are some unknowns: 1) Morpheus, Neo and Trinity make an unpredictible...erm....trinity. 2) The future, as the Architect and the Oracle see it, is over, and the Oracle's true allegiance is questionable. 3) Neo apparently is developing some real world advantage over the machines. 4) Virus Smith (and perhaps some of the other rogue programs) is a nearly unknown variable... We know he's got a big grudge against Neo, but how big is his grudge against the other machines? 5) Bane/Smith is gonna present some problems of his own.

stripes · 27th May 2003, 04:58 PM

Thanks for the insights, it makes more sense!

You had me convinced here cersei:

I used to wonder why did the Architect show Neo Trinity dying...but I realise it is precisely because he tires to persuade Neo to return to the Source since Trinity is about to die and in fact will die and nothing he can do to change that (which is NOT a lie since he could not stop her dying despite taking out the bullet but rather has to ressurect her instead). If he did now show him this then the decision to return to the Matrix is easy for Neo since he can be with Trinity....but by persuading Neo that trinity is dead, he may return to Source door instead ....which failed of course since human's greatest strength and weakness is Hope..

And added on that what Thylium says:

If my assumptions are correct, it explains why the Architect didn't make a greater attempt to persuade Neo to enter the source: The Anomoly, and hence The Matrix, hinges on a choice...the code would be in error and wouldn't work right if the Anomoly wasn't inserted...and the Anomoly is Choice. Ergo, Neo MUST make the choice in order for it to work.

I forget that this whole system works on choice, and the architech persuades Neo to make the appropriate choice which didn't work. This is my speculation based on this:

Neo may have unintentionally found a way to beat the Matrix , or the Architech wanted Neo to take that choice for his own benefit which I have no clue as of yet what.

If I had to pick, well, since Revolutions is the last installment, I would problably lean towards the former. Neo has made this choice, possibly a very good choice that will eventual lead to man kind's freedom, yet, as the Oracle already pointed out, he has to figure out why he made this choice in the first place(why will it free man kind? for instance).

25th May 2003, 06:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
stripes Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: toronto,ontario Posts: 46	Reloaded's Ending....(Spoilers) I was reading everything discussed in the other thread, and I would like to just take it in another direction concerning just the ending. Spoilers ensure of course. The architect created the Matrix, he created it in his own perfect image(a Adam and Eve, Garden of Eden symbolism?). Anyway, the architech created this perfect world, but then he realized that in order for it to function properly, he knew humans would only accept it through choice. Of course that is flawed in itself, and the architect realizes this. If you give humans choice(accept the Matrix, or not), some will not adhere to the Matrix, hence, the 1% the Architech refers to now exists. And for this 1% the "real world" was created(Zion). Now apparently the "one" is prophecied by this 1% batch. Neo(who is prophecied to be the "one") confronts the "source" to save Zion. Heres where it 's confusing: There were 5 Neo's before this one, and the Architect informs Neo that he is a anomoly(as were the others), an error to the 99.9% who have chosen to accept the Matrix. In order to counter this anomoly, the machines have set up this scenario where Neo has a choice, a choice that will save Zion. When he chooses the door to the right(as he did in the previous five), the Matrix will be destroyed as will Zion. Although after, Neo will be able to reload both the Matrix and Zion from a code that only he knows which the machines have given him. The architech even tells Neo that he will pick a selected amount of females and males to help rebuild Zion, and eventually restart the whole cycle again. Eventually, the architect also mentions that the code will be more visible, and through these continuous cycles, he will be able to rid the Matrix of this anomoly. The previous five were more likely to choose Zion, but this six is overcome by love, hence he chooses the door on the left. Yet whats puzzling about this is that the Architech already knew Neo was going to make this choice, but wasn't the whole point of this was so that Neo would pick the door on the right to continue the usual pattern? (Note: Corrections are welcomed of course.) I know this is the jist of it anyway. so Revolutions will be the after effects of this new choice and how it will affect Zion and the Matrix itself. Im curious, why would the architech let Neo make this choice, unless he has something up his sleeve? I can't wait for Revolutions...

27th May 2003, 01:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
cersei Matriculated Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 126	My 2 cents :) Nearly right but this is what I intrepret to be so... The Architect made the first Matrix which though "perfect" to him was flawed and humans rejected it...hence the "Mother of The Matrix" (and contrary to some, I do not think this is the Oracle since on Neo suggesting her name, the Architect says, "Please!" as if to dismiss that silly notion) suggested a solution where the 1% humans whom would reject The Matrix can be placed into "Zion"...I believe this means a separate programme which though still plugged in, these "rebels" would make the "choice" (an artifical one as it seems, a theme in Reloaded) to be free... However, depsite his best attempts, this near perfect soution still has an anomaly which turns up eventually...ie Neo...and if left unchecked, this anomaly will threaten the entire Matrix (and hence also Zion/Real world programme) thus all humans... To solve this, the Oracle progamme is created, which with help of other programmes like Keymaker, guides Neo into this "prophecy" which purpose is NOT to free Zion but rather to guide Neo back to the meet the Architect, where he can be persuaded, due to his inherent love for humanity, to enter the Source door, thus reintegrating his code and allowing a reboot (hence The Matrix Reloaded...such a clever title in hindsight)... This has already happenend 5 times before in what seems like 100 year cycles (and if war in Animatrix is accurate, then the REAL world must be about year 2600's but it appears to each Matrix like 1900's/2000's and to each Zion rebel as 2100's)...When Neo returns to the source, Zion is destroyed, both literally as those humans plugged into the programme is killed and also represented in Zion by the sentinel attack but Neo can choose 23 humans currently in Matrix Programme (by the way, 23 coz 23 human chromosomes?) to rebuild Zion ie inserted into a new Zion ver 6.0 programme...(hence fulfilling what Morpheus says back in The Matrix about another whom could "manipulate the Matrix and freed the first of us"). What is different this time? Trinity. I believe each reload/version of Matrix has only a few constants inc. Neo & Oracle but others like Morpheus and Trinity changes from version to version (since the Machines do allow them to have "free" runnning otherwise). This time, Neo's love for Trinity overwhelms his love for humanity in general...and even though the Architect purposely shows him that Trinity dying and in fact will die (another constant is the Machines do not seem capable of lying.....neither the Architect or Oracle ever does if you listen to what they say carefully), he still chooses emotion over logic and exits via the Matrix door instead So this opens up a whole new can of worms since from this point on, things are no longer in Machines control as it had been right up to this point....Neo is changed since returning to the "real world" hence sensing something is wrong and being able to stop the sentinels as such...this causes him to fall into a coma..... Bane too falls into a coma since he is taken over by Smith (also explaining why Smith can inhabit the "real world" since it is only another programme) he too can manipulate the real world which he did in foiling the counter-attack or saving himself from the sentinels...using this ability (first time anyway) seems to cause one to fall into a coma, perhaps as a failsafe by the machines as humans not meant to alter the real world programme.. Smith too is a new unknown element for the Machines...he is a self-replicating programme ie a virus and hence could seriously threaten the entire system since if left unchecked, could theoratically take over everyone in the Matrix/Zion.

27th May 2003, 05:58 AM	#4 (permalink)
cersei Matriculated Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 126	Choice and Free will :) I think there seems to be 2 constants in the Machine World... 1) Machines do not lie. (check everything Architect and Oracle says...none can be proven to have lied) 2) Choice or Free Will is important for Machines to grant humans in order for it all to work I used to wonder why did the Architect show Neo Trinity dying...but I realise it is precisely because he tires to persuade Neo to return to the Source since Trinity is about to die and in fact will die and nothing he can do to change that (which is NOT a lie since he could not stop her dying despite taking out the bullet but rather has to ressurect her instead). If he did now show him this then the decision to return to the Matrix is easy for Neo since he can be with Trinity....but by persuading Neo that trinity is dead, he may return to Source door instead ....which failed of course since human's greatest strength and weakness is Hope..

27th May 2003, 05:24 AM	#3 (permalink)
stripes Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: toronto,ontario Posts: 46	That was explained quite nicely. What does this all mean? From what I read of your post, its quite simple: To counter the threat called "Neo", a solution is presented. Neo holds the mathematical code that restarts everything, and I assume the architech wants to crack this code, becasue cracking this code will make the Matrix exact, accurate, mathematically correct without any mathimatical error. Thats the machines purpose, to rid the Matrix of this anomoly, which, in five cycles thus far, has been succesful. And assuming they are close to cracking the code. But the difference this time is that Neo does something else totally different. This is whats left to be answered, why did the architech allow Neo to have the choice of saving Trinity if he knew this Neo would be different then his predecessors? Since Neo is indeed different, and the architech knows this, he just screwed himself by having Neo choose the door on the left. Allowing Neo to make this choice eliminates their resource, the human race which will be destroyed by this choice. But then theres another problem added on top of that, Agent Smith!! Now he pretty much corrupted the Matrix as well, cloning the whole human race!(well from what I understand, is this true?) What is wrong with the architech, this seems like a no-win situation, whats the deal behind all of this? Did he underestimate Neo, the new virus Smith? Thats why Im wondering if he has some sort of trick up his sleeve, no way would the machines put them selves in this position. But lets not forget that the architech mentions they have other "resources", but still why would they put the fate of humanity in the hands of Neo who pretty much damned them all? Neo just killed their energy source, their batteries.

27th May 2003, 01:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
Thulium Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3	I specifically went into a second viewing to pay close attention to everything The Architect had to say and I think I figured out some things... "The One" (Neo) is the consummation of The Anomoly inherent in the Oracle's version of The Matrix. Neo is not simply a threat to the Machines, he is an integral part of the Matrix. The Matrix can ONLY be reloaded by reinserting the One. I suspect that at least a part of "the kernel" is embedded in Neo in the same or a similar was as virus Smith is embedded into Bane. I THINK that explains Neo's ability to affect the machines in the "Real" world. This begs the question, "what is the nature of the Anomoly?" The most obvious theme is Choice/Free Will, but also we have issues of Hope and Love. (Faith, Hope, and Love....hm... The fascinating issue to me is that the Architect has an understanding that the Anomoly is not simply a bug that needs to eliminated. Although the Machines might fear that the Anomoly threatens The Matrix, the Architect and the Oracle know that the Anomoly is crucial to the Matrix' continued operation! If my assumptions are correct, it explains why the Architect didn't make a greater attempt to persuade Neo to enter the source: The Anomoly, and hence The Matrix, hinges on a choice...the code would be in error and wouldn't work right if the Anomoly wasn't inserted...and the Anomoly is Choice. Ergo, Neo MUST make the choice in order for it to work. The previous anomolies had been successfully guided into making the "correct" choice, but Neo and Trinity, to quote the Oracle, "had already made their choice". Which reminds me of another interesting point, the fact that Oracle actually recognized the aspects of Choice and Love in determining The One...and she knew that Trinity's choice and Love were also important to The One. So really, Neo is the ultimate fulfillment of all the previous Anomolies! It's an amazing paradox! ....I love it!!! Where does that leave us for Revolutions? Well, the future is now completely uncertain. (Although, I think we're expecting a HAPPY ending...) Things look bleak for Zion, and The Matrix itself is likely to be getting pretty unstable soon... So all out war is basically inevitable. The machines definately have a clear numeric advantage. But there are some unknowns: 1) Morpheus, Neo and Trinity make an unpredictible...erm....trinity. 2) The future, as the Architect and the Oracle see it, is over, and the Oracle's true allegiance is questionable. 3) Neo apparently is developing some real world advantage over the machines. 4) Virus Smith (and perhaps some of the other rogue programs) is a nearly unknown variable... We know he's got a big grudge against Neo, but how big is his grudge against the other machines? 5) Bane/Smith is gonna present some problems of his own.

27th May 2003, 04:58 PM	#6 (permalink)
stripes Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: toronto,ontario Posts: 46	Thanks for the insights, it makes more sense! You had me convinced here cersei: I used to wonder why did the Architect show Neo Trinity dying...but I realise it is precisely because he tires to persuade Neo to return to the Source since Trinity is about to die and in fact will die and nothing he can do to change that (which is NOT a lie since he could not stop her dying despite taking out the bullet but rather has to ressurect her instead). If he did now show him this then the decision to return to the Matrix is easy for Neo since he can be with Trinity....but by persuading Neo that trinity is dead, he may return to Source door instead ....which failed of course since human's greatest strength and weakness is Hope.. And added on that what Thylium says: If my assumptions are correct, it explains why the Architect didn't make a greater attempt to persuade Neo to enter the source: The Anomoly, and hence The Matrix, hinges on a choice...the code would be in error and wouldn't work right if the Anomoly wasn't inserted...and the Anomoly is Choice. Ergo, Neo MUST make the choice in order for it to work. I forget that this whole system works on choice, and the architech persuades Neo to make the appropriate choice which didn't work. This is my speculation based on this: Neo may have unintentionally found a way to beat the Matrix , or the Architech wanted Neo to take that choice for his own benefit which I have no clue as of yet what. If I had to pick, well, since Revolutions is the last installment, I would problably lean towards the former. Neo has made this choice, possibly a very good choice that will eventual lead to man kind's freedom, yet, as the Oracle already pointed out, he has to figure out why he made this choice in the first place(why will it free man kind? for instance).