Matrix Reloaded -- SPOILERS!

[pkgrl]

Someone requested a plotline of Matrix Reloaded from someone who's seen it, so I guess that'd be me... since I've seen it twice already. I'll see it again tomorrow, too... just can't get enough.

Last warning...

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Okay, seems we pick up at least several months after then end of the original film, since the "free" humans have "freed more minds in the past six months than in the past six years," according to Morpheus.

Morpheus, Neo, and Trin are joined by a new operator (seems Tank also died sometime in the past several months) named Link (who, I think, is Tank's brother-in-law... or at least the guy who is doing Tank and Dozer's little sister, Zee :naughty: ) Link is still learning to trust Morpheus at face value and is constantly amazed at what Neo can do.

The machines are digging toward Zion, so the humans are mobilizing. The military leader, Commander Lock, has recalled all the hover ships to Zion so he can work out a defense of the city (which is huge and kind of surprising). Morpheus talks one ship captain into staying at broadcast depth to await word from the Oracle... and he has a checkered history with Lock.

In Zion, there are believers and non-believers... meaning that some treat Neo like Christ and others treat him like he's just another warrior, but one who does manage to do some incredible things while plugged into the Matrix. Neo's still getting used to being treated so special... especially when what he most wants to do is make whoopie with Trinity. :naughty: There is a fairly explicit scene depicting this, too... a quite satisfying one to shippers like me... that's cut together with a scene of the life celebration dance of the other Zionites, which is, in itself, pretty erotic.

The action heats up when Neo gets a message from the Oracle (after Smith has managed to overwrite the Matrix version of another Zionite, Bane) and he and Morpheus's crew leave Zion. There are new characters, new programs, new moves... so pay attention. Neo learns a LOT, but still has trouble with the one thing he needs to figure out for himself: the WHY. The Oracle tries to teach him this, but he's a slow learner. When she leaves him, the newly rewritten, former-Agent, Smith arrives. He tries to overwrite Neo (remember that while in the Matrix, everyone is essentially a computer program) and the "burly brawl" ensues, where Neo fights a dozen, then fifty, then a hundred Smiths.

There is a lot more that happens, but if you really want to read about it all, there are tons of reviews out there that give pretty decent rundowns of the plot. There's really too much for me to try and capture here.

Here's a couple tips for you to remember when you do see the film though:
There is a huge amount of new information that takes time to process, so don't dismiss any "slow" parts in anticipation of the action. The things said, even in passing, will be important later when everything is revealed in Revolutions. Remember, this is a middle chapter in the tale of Neo. Not everything is as it seems... or is it? We can't be completely certain of anything "real" or constructed. Nothing we've learned in the original is dismissed (like in so many other film franchises) so you might want to rewatch The Matrix before you see Reloaded.

Just go check out the movie. I need people to talk about it with!

Here's a link to a review that will synopsize better than me: http://www.herorealm.com/HotFish/reloaded.htm

[timdgreat]

ok so i have now seen this movie 3 times, and loved it every time, gonna go back to see it again soon, so heres what i think if it:


first off i loved Zion, i couldnt really come up with a picture in my head that really seemed to fit, but what they did with it in the movie was perfect, i loved the really deep circular cavern that was the hab units, very nicley designed.

a question i have about Zion though is why do they control the doors and such from what appears to be a the same thing as the construct we were introduced to in the first movie, wouldnt it be easier to just work the controls from a station of computers, rather then having to plug in? any one know?

Neo in this movie was awesome to say the least. i was very entertained in all his fight scenes, ecspecially the Burly Brawl, loved him with the metal pole. Also the Fight with the Merovingians men was really well done. A question though, if he can move things through the air, like hes using the force, then why doesnt he do so more often? Now i really liked how it seemed even in this movie Neo was still finding that he could do things faster and better then before, like after Trinity was shot he was moving faster then ever before, and it seemed that he at least broke the sound barrier. I also wish they had explained how he was able to stop Smith from copying himself onto Neo. And then i really enjoyed when Neo went to see the Archeitect, i loved some of the reactions that we heard and saw from the screens on the wall, I also liked how he seemed to get a lot smarter at times in this movie compared to the absent minded fool of the first he seemed to be at times.

Now on to one of my Favorite charecters Agent Smith, First i really like his new ability, its just so him, he also seems to be every where now, and from some scenes we saw in the Revolutions preiveiw it seems that hes going to take over the whole of the matrix, all hail Smith One question though i still have, is how many agents that we saw in the movie were Smith clones that we didnt know about? it seems to me that either all of them could have been or just a few, but i think some were other then the first three we saw.

Ok so now that i have talked about most of the charecters heres where im gonna talk about everything else.
First wasnt it kinda creepy when we saw that massive army of Squidys, i was basicly aghast, so many of the damn things, its scary, i also tried to imagine the whole counter attack that got its assed kicked, and i couldnt.
The twins that were under the Merovingians command were awesome, i really liked them and was fairly dissapointed that they got taken down so easily, i mean they were so cool, specialy when morpheus was fighting them for that short scene in the parking lot. I expected them to show up later still trying to get the key maker, i was dissapointed.
I was glad to see A big fight scene though with out Neo in it, as much as i love seeing him kick agent ass, it was cool to see Morpheus and Trinity take on some agents of there own. Now i realize they didnt do that well against them, but still they were good scenes.
The one scene in the movie that was a genuine suprise for me, as im sure it was for others, was the one at the end were Neo was able to stop and as far as i can tell kill 5 Squidys. First Time i saw him do it i was like no way hes got to be still in the matrix he just doesnt know it. well i did dismis that idea, but im still dumbfounded as to how he did it, any one got ideas?

well thats all i can think to type about this movie right now, except this,
If u havent seen it then why are u sitting there reading this, get out there and see it already
:rolly2:

[pkgrl]

You've hit on some points that I wanted to discuss.

Thank you!

First

wouldnt it be easier to just work the controls from a station of computers, rather then having to plug in?

That's what I wondered, too. I still don't know why they have such an elaborate system for operation in Zion. Why not use mechanical controls? I'd think that they wouldn't trust computers much. It is possible that in order to use ANY computers, they have to tap into the Matrix or some version of it, like the construct. I just didn't think they'd trust computers enough to use them that much.

Re: Neo and the sound barrier... yeah, I was actually surprised that it took him so long to reach Trin, until I realized that it really only took seconds. However long it took for her to fall the distance from floor 65 toward the ground couldn't have been as long as we saw it on screen (thank you slo-mo), but it still seemed to take him too long. In flying to save Morpheus and the Key Maker, he flew 500 miles in about 15 minutes = 2,000 miles per hour! He was already supersonic before he raced to save Trin. I loved the burst of speed evident in the reflection of his sunglasses during that burst, though! Just awesome! :alienooh:

Trin and Morpheus actually did fairly well against the agents. Remember, they are still the same. They run from agents. But they are apparently willing to stay and fight them now, even though they don't expect to stop them the way Neo can. I think their only real hope is to last long enough for someone else to help them out... or until they die.

I'm still working on how Neo stopped the squiddies at the end. There's a theory floating around the internet that the "real" world is actually the real matrix and that what we've been introduced to as the matrix is a program within a program, as if the real matrix is much more complex than what we've been led to believe. If the matrix is more complex, including programs in which individual humans can be allowed enough "freedom" so that they think they're out of the matrix, then we're in for even more shocks. Neo is an anomolous program, created so humans can have hope. He is human, but he has a greater degree of power within the matrix than other humans... he's also smarter now than his "predacessors" were.

Based on the preview of Revolutions, I don't think there's a greater matrix outside the one we already know, but I think the governing programs of the matrix are losing control. Neo is smarter and has more power than his predacessors; more exile programs are showing up (like the Key Maker, Seraph, Ghost and the Marovingian's other hoards, and even Smith); and the architect seemed surpirsed by the latest incarnation of the "anomoly," Neo, because he caught on quicker and because he personalized his attachment to humanity through Trinity. Personally, I think this last is why humanity will finally win. Neo's personal investment in Trinity will compel him to do everything he can instead of simply doing everything he feels he must. He won't let her die... we've seen that... and he won't let the world in which he's with her die either. "I can't lose you." Hope is humanity's greatest strength as well as it's greatest weakness.

[Dave]

Thanks, you answered some of the questions that I had. (I've only seen it once, but then it was only released here today.)

I thought this was much better than 'The Matrix', and frankly, much better than I had expected. Best film in a long time, even better than 'Minority Report'.

I have a few more questions:

1/ I'm not sure but is Agent Smith a kind of virus? -- he is no longer under the control of the Matrix and can replicate himself at will. You say that his purpose now is too take over the whole Matrix -- that would also fit with the idea of a virus.

But he also appears to be sentient -- if he's not, why is he still trying to stop Neo? And is he trying to stop Neo because he couldn't win if Neo reached the Architect? -- whichever door Neo took could have led to the end of the Matrix -- either by the reboot of the system and the start of a new cycle, or by it's total collapse (if they succeed.) At first, I wondered why the 'machines' weren't more concerned with Smith than Neo, but by the end I realised that if they planned and expected Neo to take the door to the reboot, they would expect to get rid of Smith very easily.

Does this mean that Smith might help Neo if he thought that humans have a chance? -- he seems to have some other issues with Neo -- when he tried to take Neo over he mentioned needing something (I forget exactly.)

The other programs just get on and do their functions -- Keymaker, Oracle -- they know that they will be deleted after each revolution, and written again, but they continue to play the part they were meant to. Smith is obviously very different.

Then again, I know some of these characters reappear in 'Revolutions', so I expect we will find out more.

2/ How did Morpheus get out of the corridor of doors? Neo flew out, but Morpheus was underneath a pile of Smiths, the door Neo flew out closed, Keymaker died of his gunshot wounds, and then Morpheus was there at his side.

3/ How far in the future are we exactly? If there have been 6 revolutions, and the present Zion has existed for over 100 years, adding on the time for the man-machine war (from 'The Second Renaisance Parts I & II' this must be at least another 200 years) then we must be well over 1000 years from now. That means that the ship's plate on the Nebuchanezzar saying made in 2160 is apocryphal. The ships must be built again each time too.

4/ I also wondered if they were still inside the Matrix, and the other Matrix was a virtual reality within a virtual reality -- due both to my last comment, and Neo's new ability to stop the machines -- but the ending seems to suggest that is not the case, so I'll just have to wait and see.

Observations:

A much bigger cast, more sets, better fight sequences, more special effects -- this film cost a lot of money, but you could see where it went. I also liked how they brought Zion to life, and the new characters they introduced. Anthony Zerbe was well cast.

I was surprised and interested to see the kid having seen 'Kid's Story'. I didn't realise that any of the 'Animatrix' would be essential to understanding the plot of 'Reloaded' apart from 'The Final Flight of Osirus'. I didn't really see the point of the kid to the main plot though, except to help build Link's character, and to show how Neo has become so revered in Zion.

[pkgrl]

Well, easy things first.

2/ Morpheus got out of the corridor of doors because Neo picked him up and flew with him through the open door. I think I missed it the first time, too, but just accepted that Neo had brought Morpheus with him. I saw it clearly the next... uh... three times. :blush:

3/ I don't think the year matters. If the Architect was telling the truth, then the inhabitant of Zion think it's around 2199 or 2200, but does it really matter? Not to the Zionites, it doesn't. Their history is only as old as they remember it to be, so the 100 years that Morpheus talked about is the only relevent thing. Before that, if there was another Zion that fought another 100 year war, then he and the other humans don't know about it. It's simply irrelevent here.

4/ I no longer think that they are still inside the Matrix at the end of the film. I think that Neo's beginning to bring his powers with him to the real world, much as Smith was finally able to transfer his consciousness (or part of it) to the real world. What happens between the two there will be very interesting.

and

1/ I think you got it right with calling Smith a virus. He's almost become the thing he hates most. Remember that he called humans a virus in the first film.

What he wanted to take from Neo was his purpose. Problem is, even Neo doesn't know what his purpose is... not yet. We're getting hints at it all the time, but he still doesn't understand the "WHY" that the Oracle, the Marovingian and the Architect all told him he needed to understand.

I've been forming a theory about all this... since I saw it the fourth time... and I'll post another thread about it soon.

I have a new question though. As soon as Neo said, "It's a bomb," why didn't the others blast the bomb itself with the EMP? Why ditch the ship and run? The bomb itself is electronic, wouldn't hitting it with the EMP disrupt its circuits enough to disable it? It's the only thing bugging me now, so I hope someone who knows more about electronics can explain it to my satisfaction... or I probably won't be able to let it go.

[timdgreat]

(wow great posts dave and pkgrl, i loved reading them)

ok so lets see if i can help out with some of the questions u guys have, at least ill try

ok so first lets adress pkgrl's post. Im not so sure its that they dont trust computers as they dont trust any machine that can think for itself, but the whole using the construct program to control the doors and defences still just doesnt make sense
What i thought was just as cool as Neo breaking the sound barrier, is the first scene in the movie when we see him flying and he goes zipping out of the clouds and makes that little funnel i thought that was cool

I'm still working on how Neo stopped the squiddies at the end. There's a theory floating around the internet that the "real" world is actually the real matrix and that what we've been introduced to as the matrix is a program within a program, as if the real matrix is much more complex than what we've been led to believe. If the matrix is more complex, including programs in which individual humans can be allowed enough "freedom" so that they think they're out of the matrix, then we're in for even more shocks. Neo is an anomolous program, created so humans can have hope. He is human, but he has a greater degree of power within the matrix than other humans... he's also smarter now than his "predacessors" were.

hmm thats an interesting theory and one i have thought of many times in the past, and in a way it makes sense but it also is to complex i think for it to be practical for a movie plot, i dont think there is a seconed matrix, i think things are as they seem, in the sense that there is the matrix and the real world
i agree with u pkgrl that it seems that the controling programs that run the Matrix do seem to be losing control or are being taken over, although i know part of it is Neo's doing i think a majority of it is Smith trying to control everything, seems hes the wild card that no one had counted on and now hes really messed up everything in his play for power cant wait to see what happens
ok now on to Daves post
first off Dave i think that the idea of Smith as a Virus is a very contraversial point that is fairly split. to me he seems more like one of the exiles in the matrix. As for why hes after Neo i think part of it is that he has a personal vendetta against him, as he said in the convo they had before the Burly Brawl, he was gonna take away Neo's purpose cause Neo took his.
ok seconed question, Morpheus got out through another door that was in the room, so he wasnt there when the room basicly blew to high heaven.
#3, i dont know how long in the future they are, i dont think we ever will really know at all
#4 i think we will have to wait and see:rolly2:

[timdgreat]

I think the reason that they didnt use the Emp pkgrl was several fold, first i dont think they had time to use it, and if they did use it then i think they would have destroyed all there system, seconed we dont knwo how long it takes to recharge it, so if they used it to stop the bomb then whos to say the squids wouldnt just run in and destroy them anyway after that. And i would bet the bomb was sheilded from emp. :rolly2:

[stripes]

So only three people saw this?

Wow! I was never a fan of the Matrix, I agree it was thought provoking and had groundbraking effects, but I always regarded as just that, a great movie. Reloaded, in my opinion, is a lot better, effects wise, and the fact that the original already established the premise, the Wackawski bros are allowed to showoff now.

And I say let them showoff! I think Timdgreat mentioned this, and I agree, the Burly brawl was wicked. The whole taking the pole out of the cement and weilding it as a weapon was awesome, I was impressed. I think the Wackawskis have outdone themselves, very impressive fight scene. A very good chase too.

I went into this movie with no expectations, maybe thats why it worked out so well. And I would like to thank you all for answering those questions, I was wondering the same things.

I actually think Neo was still in the Matrix at the end, or some other kind of program. I guess we'll see whats what when Revolutions hits theaters.

Best action movie I seen in a while, the Burly brawl rocks!

[Dave]

Originally posted by stripes
So only three people saw this?

I'm wondering about that too! I know that all the online review sites don't rate it (AICN, Rotten Tomatoes) but what do they know?

It was on two screens at the Warner Village I went to, and it was sold out at every performance.

I've been reading some online comments and there are a few things that I missed:

1/ What is the significance, if any, of the numbers -- they have 314 seconds before the security comes back on (that's pi).

Neo must pick 16 females and 7 males, a total of 23 people to continue the Matrix.

2/ When he first enters the Architects office the bank of screens is the same as the one that fades into the interrogation room scene in the first film, just before he has the bug put in.

The screens later show pictures from earlier scenes, and some of a young boy. Imdb lists actors as Neo at various earlier ages. These shots are the only ones they could have appeared in.

This all adds up to the Architect having followed Neo's progress from a very early age.

3/ Re: whether Zion is another Matrix or real. Just to add that Neo does say "something's different" before he stops the sentinels.

The 'Brothers' aren't talking about the movie, so we have to wait until the Autumn for the answers. I did find this though:

"You can't imagine what happens next," says Reeves, who, like everyone else involved, is mum as to how the story ends. "But I will say this: There's no going back to this story. With 'Revolutions,' it's over, and you'll know why when you see it.

"The Matrix is the prison of the mind," Silver says. "In 'Revolutions,' we open the gate."

[stripes]

Another thing I would like to add on here before Revolutions reveals all(or opens the gates). I can't remember exactly how it went, but its the first meeting between Neo and Morphious and Neo comments: "I don't believe in fate, I believe I have the power to dictate the outcome of my own life." (Yes, it sounds misquoted, forgive me)

*Spoilers*



And the architect said Neo's passion will prove the fate of mankind, and apparently, that seems correct since Neo goes for the left door to rescue Trinity. However, Neo believes he has control over his own life, and this 6th Neo is the most sure of himself, perhaps his philosophy on life will be right after all? His predecessors were cocky for instance.

Maybe thats the Wackowskis philosophy on life, are they religious by any chance?(do they believe in Monotheism? despite the Buddhist symmbolisms and even the Neo=Christ analogy?). If they're not, I guess it doesn't matter, either way this could come true in Revolutions because it goes against the Matrix doctrine(Humans are nothing more than eletric pulses or digits or whatever).

Stop me if Im taking this too far.

Great show, Im looking forward to # 3.

[stripes]

And what I meant by controlling his own life also extends to controlling or dictating the lives of others around him(or those still plugged into the Matrix). In other words, despite his choice to save Trinity, he still has the power to saves those in the Matrix itself.

I didn't make that clear in my last post.

[pkgrl]

Okay, seems you guys can't wait until I post my theory in a new thread (you keep mentioning parts of it here) so I'll let you guys know what I think is driving the whole Matrix trilogy now.

First, timdgreat mentioned

i know part of it is Neo's doing i think a majority of it is Smith trying to control everything, seems hes the wild card that no one had counted on and now hes really messed up everything in his play for power cant wait to see what happens

Absolutely! And what stripe said in the last post hits on the same thing.

In other words, despite his choice to save Trinity, he still has the power to saves those in the Matrix itself.

I think what's happening between these two is that essentially they are battling to be the next "God" of the Matrix... and the real world.

Consider what we know:

1) The code of the Matrix has changed. Everyone keeps mentioning it throughout the movie, especially Neo and Link (the operator). When Smith tries to overwrite Neo, Link and the others can't figure out what he's doing because they can't read the code. When Neo, Trin and Morpheus go to see the Marovingian, Neo says in the elevator that the code looks strange, like every floor is wired with explosives. And even when Neo flies out of the Architect's monitor room, his own code is so different that Link and Morpheus can't identify him: ("What's that?" "I don't know, but whatever it is is moving faster than anything I've ever seen.")

2) Both Smith and Neo have the power to create life: Smith by copying himself onto other software, including humans who are plugged into the Matrix; Neo by bringing Trinity back to life after she "died" inside the Matrix. Miracles like creating life are usually reserved for saviors and gods... at least in human mythology (and religion).

3) Both Smith and Neo have begun to bring their "powers" outside the Matrix. We saw Smith finally leave the Matrix (in the form of Bane, after having overwritten his personality with his own) and we don't know if he triggered a ship's EMP to tip the humans' hands in their attempted counterattact, or if he manufactured it himself. And Neo stopped the squiddies at the end by creating what looked like an EMP barrier (since it had the same effect as an EMP) which disabled them. (I think he was able to "sense" the machines in the real world because he was changed when he left the Architect's room.) These are things they would have only been able to do inside the Matrix... until now. But neither one has enough power yet to do these things without some personal risk... thus they are both in a coma, presently.

There's more too it (like the symbolism of Neo's name, and more) but you get the drift. I've been talking about it with friends, and they agree.

Dave said that the Architect has been watching Neo for a long time... I agree. I think it chose him to be the next "One" so it's been watching his progress. The fact that Morpheus and the others took so long to find Neo is bad for the Architect, though. Seems Neo developed more of his own personality and was a different person by the time he even learned about the Matrix, so he had different ideas of what he could and couldn't do going in. The others may have had "more respect" for the Marovingian, meaning possibly that they treaded more carefully, but Neo could do more against his minions. He has more "skill" than his predecessors. Because of these things, I think that the Architect was telling the truth about the five previous incarnations of the Matrix and it's subsiquent offshoots, like the creation of Zion. I also think that the Architect knows something else is going on inside the Matrix that's beyond its control (ie, Smith taking control) and that's why it tried so hard to convince Neo into going back to the source for the ultimate reboot. The machines ARE desperate.

Problem for the humans is, Neo doesn't know what's he's possibly becoming. That's the WHY he hasn't figured out.

Anyway, that's my theory. Feel free to poke holes. I gotta get ready for work.

[Dave]

That sounds likely. I said already that Agent Smith has somehow become something different. Only I think that these rogue virus-like programs will now help the humans to win, now that they may have a chance of breaking the cycle and winning.

from TIME magazine
That strange number, 314: Could it refer to pi (3.14); or to Cerebral Cortex 314, the website for the Commander Keen computer game; or to the lifetime batting average of White Sox outfielder Bibb Falk?

Also they have a good plot summary for those still looking at http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101030512/story2.html

Reloaded begins as The Matrix did, with green computer code drizzling down a black screen and Trinity kicking beaucoup booty as the Agents pursue her over and off rooftops. She demolishes several drone Guards with a virtuosic fury: fabulous helmet smashes and back-leg extensions. Soon she is hurtling streetward as an Agent blasts away at her. Thwock! One bad-guy bullet hits home. Trinity falls onto a parked car, terminally smashing it and her.

Neo is jolted awake from this dream, or prophecy, as Trinity sleeps next to him. The Nebuchadnezzar, Morpheus' ship, heads for Zion, the one city on Earth whose humans are not under the spell of The Matrix. Except for Neo's fight with three upgrade-generation Agents, the film's first hour is spent on political wrangling among the Zion elite. Morpheus tangles with his rival Lock (Harry Lennix) and realigns with lost love Niobe (Pinkett Smith). If you thought the Jedi Council debates were the high points of the Star Wars films, you'll love this part of Reloaded. The red-meat brigade will have to wait a bit for their action satisfaction.

Agent Smith (Hugo Weaving), Neo's nemesis, has been busy. At the end of the first film, he thought he had killed Neo; in fact, he was witness to the birth of the hero. Now that Neo has learned to fly, Smith has acquired a trick of his own: this computer virus can invade any form, human or Agent, and take it over. After invading Bane, a Zionite, Smith cuts a gash in his hand. He's fascinated by the humanity he has assumed - by the blood, the vulnerability, the pain. Smith was always more warped than we gave him credit for.

Neo is summoned by the Oracle and realizes that she's "a program from the machine world." She gives Neo a quest: find the door to the Source. To do so, he must find the Key Maker (Randall Duk Kim), imprisoned by a desiccated French dandy, the Merovingian (Lambert Wilson).

First, Neo has a date with Mr. Smith—a lot of him—in a courtyard. Neo fights eight, then two dozen, then 100 Smiths. (He's a twist on an Austin Powers villain, the Many-Me.) In the "Burly Brawl," as the filmmakers call this sequence, numerical size doesn't matter. Neo deflects his assailants with his superior pole fighting or by swinging a spare Smith like an Olympic hammer to knock over many others.

Flanked by Trinity and Morpheus, Neo meets the Merovingian and his luscious wife Persephone (Monica Bellucci). The Merovingian is a Frenchman out of the Bush Administration bestiary: cruel, supercilious, with a love of cursing in French - which he describes as like "wiping your ass with silk." He refuses to release the Key Maker.

Persephone, livid at her husband's infidelities, tells Neo she will help him - at the price of a passionate kiss. Reluctantly, he gives her one, and she leads the Zion Three to the Key Maker. They are set upon by eight of the Merovingian's goons, including those fierce wraiths, the Twins. Neo grabs some ancient weapons and bests the bunch. Trinity and Morpheus depart for their wild ride with the Key Maker.

Having survived their freeway adventure, Neo, Morpheus and the Key Maker enter a skyscraper - the building in Neo's Trinity dream. Neo insists Trinity remain behind, to stay alive. "One door leads to the Source," the Key Maker says; he adds that the door will be accessible for exactly 314 seconds. Eventually, after more fighting, Neo finds the right door and walks into a room where an old man (Helmut Bakaitis) sits."I am the Architect," he says. "I created The Matrix. I've been waiting for you."

Watching the first film, skeptical viewers had to wonder: In a world where nothing was as it seemed, were Morpheus and his band the only realists, or were they the victims of a monstrous delusion? The Architect tells Neo he is a dupe: a false hope that springs among the tiny group of rebels who believe in a superman, a One, as their salvation. The coming of Neo and his five predecessors - for this is the sixth version of The Matrix, the sixth revolt of Zion - was programmed by "the mother of The Matrix." The Oracle.

[timdgreat]

WOW im blown away

had to read all ur guys posts after my last one 3 times to fully integrate what i was reading and understand it, now that i think i got a grasp of what u were talking about i will jump back in.

First i also am wondering why more people havent posted about the movie yet, i mean i know lots of people are going to see it, the money its making speaks for its self, so where is every one?

seconed Dave i dont think there are layers to the matrix, i just think that there is one, (something i think i previously already stated)

third i really like ur theory pkgrl from re reading it several times now and thinking about it i think it sounds pretty close to the mark, and as of yet i cant find any holes to poke in it. the whole idea tho that Bane is in a coma cause Smith was controling him or something is odd and i cant fathome why, for Neo it makes sense, he exerted himself to much, but not for Bane. unfortunatly we will just have to wait to hear more rumors or wait for more preiviews and the actuall movie, which i wish would come out right now:rolly2:

[stripes]

Yeah I can't forgive these cliffhangers, at least we get the full story in a few months though unlike SW.

Originally posted by pkgrl


Dave said that the Architect has been watching Neo for a long time... I agree. I think it chose him to be the next "One" so it's been watching his progress. The fact that Morpheus and the others took so long to find Neo is bad for the Architect, though. Seems Neo developed more of his own personality and was a different person by the time he even learned about the Matrix, so he had different ideas of what he could and couldn't do going in. The others may have had "more respect" for the Marovingian, meaning possibly that they treaded more carefully, but Neo could do more against his minions. He has more "skill" than his predecessors. Because of these things, I think that the Architect was telling the truth about the five previous incarnations of the Matrix and it's subsiquent offshoots, like the creation of Zion. I also think that the Architect knows something else is going on inside the Matrix that's beyond its control (ie, Smith taking control) and that's why it tried so hard to convince Neo into going back to the source for the ultimate reboot. The machines ARE desperate.

Problem for the humans is, Neo doesn't know what's he's possibly becoming. That's the WHY he hasn't figured out.

Anyway, that's my theory. Feel free to poke holes.

well I don't want to poke holes, but I agree with this. The Oracle also tells Neo it is not the choice he will make that matters, since she already knows the choice he'll make, instead, what matters most is that he must understand why he made that choice. I like the connection you made with Trinity and the human race in general, rescuing Trinity then bringing her back to life could also symbolize his role for humanity:

Saving Trinity is essential, since that shows Neo cares, he's not one dimentional, he's fully rounded, and this love for Trinity is not selfish. If he could love her, he could love humanity. But this is stretching it I suppose, oh well.

I would also like to comment on the whole Christ angle of these movies, in the original, Neo was shot dead, but then came back to life, the resurrection anyone?

Perhaps Revolutions will be the Armaggedon of the bible(the battle in Zion), agent Smith(Bane) is the anti-Christ, and Neo the savior king? But not literally of course, but as a symbolism if we are to expand on the Christ=Neo mytho of the series?

Just speculating of course, now you can poke holes.

When can we start discussing those cool effects and out of nowhere gags(it was a fun brawl, what made it more fun was Neo ending it by doing his "superman thing", and all the Smiths looking speechless with a kind of WTF? look on their faces, )?

I also liked Neo's "You could have just asked", line to the Oracle's bodyguard. Neo's one cool hero.

Anyway, continue, this is a very intersting discussion.