Daleks - beginning and end

[gr8scott]

I just finished watching the first seasons episodes titled "Dead Planet". Very good eps. One thing that was confusing is that at the end of the episodes, the Daleks were defeated and killed. However, we know that they come back in later years. Can anybody breifly describe the Dalek timeline in the series. It was suggested to me that the "Dead Planet" ending was ignored in later seasons in an effort to bring back the Daleks. This seems likely. What are your thoughts?

[ray gower]

Continuity between series in Doctor Who was never a strong point. Why lose a perfectly good nasty enemy just because you have destroyed them?

Besides The Doctor shuttles backwards and forwards through time and relativity, so perhaps timelines are not so critical?

I suppose if you want to be really pernickity you could start with Tom Baker and the Genesis of the Daleks, then comes the dealings with the Tharl with William Hartnell back in the 60's.
Though this does not really work, it broadly gives two creation points. The original suggested that the Tharl created the Daleks themselves

[gr8scott]

I half-remember, during the Tom Baker years, that Davros was creating/cloning Daleks... or something like that. Does anyone else remember this?

[Dave]

I don't mean to complicate things further but the Daleks somehow gain the ability to Time Travel. I thought that was how they escaped their destruction -- by altering the Timeline. Unfortunately, if they can alter the Timeline once, they could also go back and alter their birth yet seem to lose that ability. They also wouldn't need to fight a war, with a race I forget now, but which involves most of the Galaxy.

I was only about 3, but there was 'The Chase' in season 2 when they use a Time machine to chase and attempt to exterminate the Doctor, and then most of season 3 devoted to an epic space opera about 'The meddling monk', also a Time Lord (only the term wasn't yet invented), and a woman called Sara Kingdom who was an agent from 4000 AD, and the Dalek's master plan to destroy the Earth using a Time Destructor. I think that these episodes would throw more light onto your query. I can't help more since I was hiding behind the sofa at the time.

[gr8scott]

Originally posted by Dave
I can't help more since I was hiding behind the sofa at the time.

[ray gower]

Wasn't the meddling monk the series introducing The Master?

[Dave]

I believed they were different characters, though there are similarities. I had to go and look this up especially for you:-

from:Doctor Who Guide

The Master and the Doctor were at the Acadamy together so knew each other well. The Meddling Monk travelled in time altering past events as a hobby, but left Gallifrey around 50 years after the Doctor, and his TARDIS was a later version, a Mark IV.

from:Doctor Who Info page

The Doctor has actually met many Time Lords -- the War Chief in 'The War Games', Omega (a chief scientist from Time Lord history, Cho Je, Morbius (his brain anyway), and the engineer Drax. On Gallifrey, he met non-renegades like Goth, Spandrell, Andred, Borusa, & Flavia. He took Romanadvoratrelundar as a companion. Then met older Time Lord Azmael, and the evil biologist known as the Rani, and the mysterious Valeyard.

[Dave]

When my son saw a Dalek model in a shop and thought it was something from 'Robot Wars', I thought it was about time to introduce him to 'Dr. Who'. So, I just re-watched 'Day of the Daleks' with him. (I have several 'Dr. Who' videos, but they were in my loft.)

It is a very good story, which stands the test of time. I always thought that the plot was 'Day of the Jackal' (that is the source of the title) but I realised that it has much stronger similarities to 'Terminator'. Some have compared it to 'Planet of the Apes', or the original 'Outer Limits' episodes 'Soldier' and 'Demon With a Glass Hand' (soldiers from the future travelling to the present to alter history.)

The twist with the 'Dr. Who' story is that they have their history down wrong. Like 'Terminator 2' and 'Escape from Planet of the Apes' they cause a Temporal Loop which results in the thing they meant to prevent.

The Doctor says that 'Blinovitch's Limitation Effect' prevents the guerillas making multiple attempts to kill Reginald Styles in the same time period, so in this episode the Daleks invaded Earth a whole century earlier than they were prevented in 'The Dalek Invasion of Earth'.

I've found a comprehensive answer to your Dalek history questions at these BBC websites:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/doctorwho/...history1.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/doctorwho/...history2.shtml

The first history of the Daleks

In The Daleks, Thal records - a mixture of oral legend and historical texts - are said to go back about half a million years. The Thals were a warrior race, while the ancestors of the Daleks (Kaleds) were teachers and philosophers. About 500 years before the events of The Daleks a thousand-year-old degenerative war between the two races came to a conclusion (Genesis of the Daleks). Davros, the leading Kaled scientist, developed the Daleks as a 'housing' for mutated Kaleds. He was killed by his creatures after slaughtering the majority of his people. As a term of contempt, the Thals termed the (remaining) Kaleds 'Dalek people' (or - on one occasion in The Daleks - Dals).

Despite these events, the war did not end until the Thals exploded a single neutron bomb. The destruction was so great that the Thals themselves were affected by the radiation. They committed themselves to pacifism as a result.

A group of advanced Daleks survived the explosion by leaving the planet in a hastily constructed spacecraft. Those Daleks left behind were early products of Davros's experimental programme and, although many survived the neutron bomb, they remained trapped in the bunkers beneath the Kaled city for centuries. These Daleks were dependent on both static electricity and high levels of radiation, and their weapons were comparatively weak. The primitive Daleks were destroyed by the Doctor in this story.

(The Doctor never establishes the date of this story, and his comment in The Dalek Invasion of Earth - that The Daleks is set a million years in the future - is pure (inaccurate) speculation. By the time of Planet of the Daleks (the 26th-century ) the tale of the Thal’s penetration of the Dalek city has become a legend.)

The more advanced Daleks developed their own technology, which enabled non-Kaleds to become Dalek mutants. A large number then returned to Skaro and began working on time travel technology in conjunction with Theodore Maxtible (The Evil of the Daleks). (The date is difficult to ascertain, but would have to be somewhere between the 19th and mid-22nd centuries.) Civil war broke out on Skaro, and for a long time the Thals were once more able to live there in peace.

One of the ships that escaped the destruction on Skaro crashed on Vulcan in the 21st or early 22nd century. (Therefore, they recognise the second Doctor, and the Earth colonists have not heard of the Daleks.) Mankind's first major encounter with the Daleks came a little later in 2164. When the Daleks were defeated (The Dalek Invasion of Earth) they completed their time travel programme ('The Daleks discovered the secret of time travel') and attempted to turn this defeat into victory by going back in time and invading the Earth in the late 21st century. ('We have invaded Earth again. We have changed the pattern of history.')

The Doctor's intervention a century later (Day of the Daleks) was so successful that this alternative time-line did not happen. (The Daleks knew of the Doctor, but did not recognise his third incarnation, using a mind analysis machine to confirm his identity.)

Stung by their twin defeats, the Daleks pursued the first incarnation of the Doctor (The Chase), reasoning that if his future intervention could be neutralised their plans would succeed.

Between the 23rd and 25th centuries the Daleks encountered the third Doctor in an untelevised adventure, and then developed a deadly space plague (Death to the Daleks). (The Doctor is recognised in Death to the Daleks, which would seem to take place before Planet of the Daleks.)

In the 26th century the Daleks planned to destroy the Earth-Draconia pact (Frontier in Space), and then conquer the galaxy with a huge, invisible army (Planet of the Daleks).

On Skaro meanwhile, the Thals ended a period of pacifistic isolation by developing space craft. Their first lengthy mission was to Spiridon, where, with the Doctor's help, the Daleks were defeated again. (The Daleks in that story identify the Doctor.)

Mission to the Unknown states that for over a thousand years the Dalek campaign ignored the Milky Way completely. From approximately 3500 they waged campaigns in the Ninth Galactic System and in the constellation of Mir, conquering 70 and 40 planets in the two regions respectively. The Daleks also returned to Skaro, wiping out the Thals who lived there. They had hoped to receive a new direction from their creator, but Davros had not survived.

In the year 4000 the Daleks returned their attention to the solar system, forging an alliance with other races (The Daleks' Master Plan). Once again, the Doctor interceded.

Despite all these defeats the Daleks were never entirely wiped out and the Time Lords predicted a time when the Daleks could become the dominant life-form in the cosmos. As a result of the Doctor's intervention Dalek 'history' was massively changed. (See The second history of the Daleks).

The Second History of the Daleks

The Doctor does succeed in changing history in Genesis of the Daleks. The events of previous Dalek stories, if they happened at all, are now vastly different. The Doctor delays Dalek development by 1000 years, but, more importantly, his actions cause Davros to remain alive.

The Doctor's warnings about the dangers of the Daleks had some effect on their creator, making him paranoid enough to activate a force field in his chair. He thus survives the Daleks' assassination attempt. In the previous time line, Davros was killed and forgotten. Davros also remembered some of the Dalek defeats mentioned by the Doctor. For example, the Daleks retain an interest in Earth and want to invade it again, especially as Davros thinks he knows how they were defeated.

The Daleks, unaware that Davros survived their attack, leave Skaro as soon as they can, going out into space and abandoning their homeworld. They either exterminate the Thals when they leave the bunker or note with disinterest that they have already gone. Embroiled in a war with the Movellans, a group of Daleks return to Skaro many centuries later (Destiny of the Daleks). Davros is, however, taken prisoner by humans, and the Daleks are forced to fight the Movellans without his help.

The Movellans win the war with a virus. Ninety years later a detachment of surviving Daleks rescue their imprisoned creator (Resurrection of the Daleks). The Daleks recognise the Doctor, perhaps from their tactical survey of Gallifrey. This faction is led by the Dalek Supreme, and they have returned to Skaro, perhaps hoping to recover information and equipment left behind.

One hundred years later Davros arrives on Nekros, his programme to turn humans into Daleks already well advanced. (Perhaps when interrogated the Doctor told Davros of the events of Evil of the Daleks, leading Davros to conclude that if the Daleks possess some of the 'human factor' they will not be slaves to logic, and will not be drawn into an impasse as with the Movellans.)

Skaro is known and feared by humans as the Dalek homeworld, but the creatures are not regarded as being an overwhelming threat. (In this time line the combined Draconian/human peace is strong enough to encourage such complacency.) The Supreme Dalek arrests Davros (Revelation of the Daleks) and tries him.

On Skaro, Davros wins the arguments regarding human tissue and mentality, and takes over the white/gold Daleks, augmenting them and himself. He becomes Emperor (perhaps again trying to duplicate a successful pattern described by the Doctor). However, some Daleks rebel over the issue of racial purity.

They learn of the Hand of Omega and leave Skaro to retrieve it and use it to threaten or destroy Davros. Both factions use their primitive time corridor technology to return to Earth in 1963 (Remembrance of the Daleks). Skaro is destroyed by the Hand 1000 years before or after (according to the Doctor) - probably after, putting the date of its destruction somewhere around the 30th century. Davros is left in space near Earth in 1963.

Prior to Genesis of the Daleks, Davros did not feature in Dalek history and was never referred to. Without him the Daleks had a solid, cohesive empire, always with one purpose. With him around they are a mess of squabbling factions, incapable of the unity needed to develop dimensionally transcendental time travel. Whilst Davros lives the Daleks will remain disorganised, and will never become the threat that the Time Lords so feared.

So, is that clear now???

I thought not! Slightly over complicated I think.

My son wants to watch 'Genesis of the Daleks' now. It's a pity that most of 'The Dalek Master Plan' has been lost forever, I'd really like to have seen that again, and revisited those childhood memories.

[Dave]

I'm on a roll. I just watched ‘Remembrance of the Daleks’. It’s actually the first time that I ever had. I got so bored with the Colin Baker era, and so annoyed with the BBC for changing the time slot, that I stopped bothering to watch 'Dr. Who' back in the '80's. At the time, I didn’t possess a video recorder, and work and other life pressures made it too much trouble to try to catch it. I’d read that this was a good story, and I have to agree that if the quality of the rest of the season was like this they were wrong to cancel the show.

This is a 1988, 25th season, story featuring Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Aldred as Ace. It is most notable for seeing a Dalek climb a staircase at the end of the first episode, and the inclusion of a "special weapons" Dalek.

The Doctor again returns to the junkyard at 76, Totter's Lane, as previously seen in the series' first story, 'An Unearthly Child', '100,000 BC', and in season 22's 'Attack of the Cybermen'. It seems that when he left suddenly in November 1963 with Susan, Barbara and Ian, he left behind ‘The Hand of Omega’. Not Omega’s real hand, but a powerful Time Lord device that is needed for Time Travel.

Two rival factions of Daleks, one loyal to the Dalek Emperor and one to the Dalek Supreme, are searching for the device. The Daleks are focusing their search around Coal Hill School, Shoreditch; the school that the Doctor's granddaughter Susan attended, while a military unit led by Group Captain Gilmore is attempting to resist their incursions.

The Doctor’s plan is simply to keep Gilmore and his team out of harm's way while the two Dalek factions battle each other for control of the Hand. The imperial Daleks eventually overpower those led by the Dalek Supreme and capture the device.

The Dalek Emperor is revealed to be Davros, in the third episode, now with only the last vestiges of his humanoid form remaining. The Doctor begs him not to use the Hand, but is ignored. However, this is just the final ruse in a complex trap laid by the Time Lord to defeat his old adversaries.

The Hand vaporises the Dalek's home planet, Skaro, by turning its sun into a supernova, and then returns to destroy their forces orbiting Earth. The Doctor confronts the Dalek Supreme and causes it to self-destruct by convincing it that it is the sole surviving member of its race.

So, this really is finally the end of the Daleks, or at least the end of Davros, Skaro and the Supreme Dalek. There are probably a few odd Daleks left out there.

It was clever how it was also the beginning too, though. Ace turned the TV on and it said “'This is BBC television, the time is quarter past five and Saturday viewing continues with an adventure in the new science fiction series Do...”

It has been pointed out that whatever it is, it's not 'Dr. Who'. As it's not dark, and it would be in November in London at 5:15, nor do the later events indicate an evening. I would add that I used to watch 'Dr. Who' from the very first episode, and it never followed the test card IIRC. It came after the football (soccer) results, and before ‘Jukebox Jury’.

[Dave]

Davros...

[Yoda]

Spike Milligan's 'Pakistani Dalek' sketch here:
http://www.telegoons.org/milligan_pakistani_dalek.htm

[Dave]

The first part of that sketch is here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/class...ps/funny.shtml