7.06: Lifeboat

[Lizzi]

I agree with Beckman. Lifeboat was a mess, MS chewed the scenary worse then Shatner, Jack was AWOL and it showed. (Sorry Rick, shooting a few scenes with you in an empty room with a 'concerned' look on your face doesn't count, IMHO.)

And as far as I'm concerned, there was no moral dilemma.

I'm not going to get into an argument about the existence of souls, but from what I saw, all that was loaded into Daniel's mind were electronic copies of the dead passengers' memories. Or in other words, they were dead, their souls (if they had any) were long gone, so all the angst about destroying the passengers' lives was nonsense.

[Colonel, sir!]

Well their bodies were destroyed, but their consciousness were not. So they were alive...remember Janet remarked "Daniel is an vessel for their lives, an lifeboat"?

Well actually, thats the flaw, does an soul(for a lack of a better word) just roam the corridors for an host?

[Lizzi]

So they were alive...remember Janet remarked "Daniel is an vessel for their lives, an lifeboat"?

That's my point. I simply don't buy that their consciousnesses or souls or whatever were in Daniel's body. IMHO, all Daniel had in him was a copy of their memories, comparable to overwriting a disk, so I don't see the great moral problem.

In 'Holiday' Janet explained that Daniel and Machello hadn't traded consciousnesses, the machine had merely reprogrammed their brains. The situation in 'Lifeboat' was similar, IMHO.

I had the same problem with 'Entity' in S4. Sam's consciousness transferred into an IBM mainframe? I don't think so. Consciousness is a function of brain activity, no brain activity, no consciousness.

[Colonel, sir!]

Originally posted by Lizzi


That's my point. I simply don't buy that their consciousnesses or souls or whatever were in Daniel's body. IMHO, all Daniel had in him was a copy of their memories, comparable to overwriting a disk, so I don't see the great moral problem.

Well, if it was their memories channeling through Danny, even if everything was fabricated, they were still living through them, and their memories could act like an conscious. Remember the Gamekeeper?

[beckmen]

I believe that our minds, our memories, is what make us what we are. The body is just a shell, the mind is the person. Without the mind, the body is worthless, but without the body the person is still whole. These people WERE alive. But that wasn't really a facet of this episode. It was all about saving Danny-boy, damn the consequences. Daniel would have been shouting at Jack again if he would have been allowed to speak.

[pamie]

Ok I thought that this was an ok one.

I thought that MS did really well...loved the little boy...

I must admit that even Im getting a little fed up with the lame reasons that Jack is not around and Im not his biggest fan
I did say to the person I was watching it with..oh well that will be Jack knocked out all episode when he came back through the gate.

Also really starting to hate the fact that they never really finish the story off!

[skydiver]

i think it woudl have been more interesting had it been teal'c that had gotten teh memories instead of daniel. I mean....danny goes crackers is becoming a stargate cliche.

he's gone through the 'no one believes me and thinks i'm nuts' in tbftgog, switches bodies in holiday, goes nuts in need and legacy, gets all meglomaniac in AP and had he been around for s6, i'm sure it would have been daniel seeing the invisible bugs instead of jonas.

Teal'c on the other hand, other than Enemies/Threshold, has yet to be nuts. It would at least have been a different twist on the same old cliched plot of download personalities.

classic trek did it, several times IIRC, b5 did it, ds9 did it, tng did it

if you're gonna retread old plots, one way to keep them interesting is to add a new and unique twist, and teal'c going nuts is a little bit uniquer than danny

on the upside, teryl's scenes were fantastic. I hope they remember them when it's time to submit stuff for awards.

[Rowan]

Teryl did great! I especially loved the scene when 'Keenan' starts to cry and she slowly lowers him down to her lap. You could see the mixed messages cross her face: 'I've known this man for a long time - will this upset him?' all the way through 'This is a scared child - let me help.'.

Wonderfully done.

Rowan

[Dave]

I said in an earlier post how I thought everyone had started knocking 'Stargate SG-1' the way Trek fans have been knocking 'Enterprise' for the last couple of years. When shows have been on as long as these, you cannot help but get stories that are a little like another story, there are only so many possible stories to be told.

However, I was disappointed with this one, as it was much too same-y. Daniel going nuts, storing others conciousnesses in one mind....

Maybe it was an old script that was unused and they dug up again, but it should have stayed buried.

"The script looks like it really plays to Michael Shanks' strengths. From what I've seen, he is going to get to play a bunch of these different people. Looks like there are some nice scenes for Teryl Rothery, as well, as Fraiser tries to treat Daniel and all of the various people trapped in his brain."

That was the best part of it. MS is good at this, and we don't get to see TR enough.

I am really missing Jack and his levity

But this had one of the best Jack lines ever - I actually laughed out loud - when he says to Teal'c "I dare you to say that again!"

I really didn't notice the things you said about RDA's absence, but on reflection I guess they are true.

One thing that annoyed me was the change that occurred about 3/4s of the way through. Up until the second appearance of the boy, none of the conciousnesses had any memory of the interactions between Fraiser and the others before them, but suddenly the Sovereign knew what she had just said to the boy.

I know that explaining everything again and again would make boring TV, but there was no reason for the Sovereign to know what he knew, and the later scene with the boy's father would then be different.

At first, they seemed to be unsure if Daniel was nuts, but they also mentioned the possibility of him being a Goa'uld, and instantly dismissed it. I think if they had developed that aspect of the story more, then it could have possibly been more interesting.

[Rowan]

Perhaps the other personalities did know what was going on but were too afraid to speak out or too cowed by the presence of thier Sovereign to speak. Keenan, being a child, might not have had those same fears and he seemed comforted by Janet's presence. Later the engineer deemed to remember so perhaps his need to be of service to his ship and it's passengers was the focal point for him.

It would have made a better episode, IMHO, if it had been longer and with more interaction between everyone. It's difficult to shove a complex storyline into 44 some off minutes of screen time.

Rowan

[Elisa Azure]

My two cents: (With some hints to the next half of S7 and little of S8.)

I thought this episode was so ripping off many Stargate, Trek and nearly every other sci-fi out there. I mean the exact same thing was done with Seven of Nine in the show and the books (Written by Christie Golden and done much better than the TV show.) There were children personalities in that and all.

And in both episodes the actors got the chance to show off what they could do. Jeri Ryan did a little better job that MS I think, as now you guys come to mention it it was very Shatner esque.

Other than this episode being not only simmilar to others, even the previous one, I did like the nice focus on Janet, and her interaction with Daneil. They just got him back and are not willing to lose him again this easily.

Overall though I have found the episdoes in S7 rather forgetable or ones I just do not wish to see again. The season opener was exciteing and I enjoyed that, Fradgile Balance is my fav so far, Orhpeus just, I didn't like it, 45 mins of character whumping I don't enjoy. (Hence you don't catch me watching eps like The Devil you Know very often if at all.) But the character development for Teal'c was needed as I was begining to wonder what had happened to his mental state after he lost Jr. The perious two just seemed like a big yawn and budget saving episodes that shouldn't have been put after one another, perhaps a few more meaty eps that were driven by the central plot inbetween the two would have made them easier to swallow.

You also wouldn't believe how much I'm missing Jack. He's been such a central character for years. I miss his interaction with Daneil and Teal'c and mostly Sam. It is nice though to see the other actors get a chance to be in the lime light though. Then I have to ask why some characters may not be around much longer?!

Don't get me wrong I love Stargate, have Seasons 1-5 on DVD boxset (and eargerly awaiting Season 6) Though I think that stretching it out to now a confirmed Season 8 is going a bit far and will degrade the show. I find myself wishing that Jonas was there if not Jack, and that isn't going to happen. They should have left this Season as the end and concentrated on rouding up story lines, answering questions, and generally saying goodbye to these characters we have all come to know and love, in a way that will not make us reach for the Kleenx for crying our little hearst out over the fact that someone has died. (Simmilarities to Voyager here are endless, need I mention Cary?)

To end this amazingly negative post with a positive note, I am looking foreward to Space Race (even though it is another Voyager plot I recoginise) and Avanger 2.0, Chimara, simply as it will answer what happens to Sarah/Osiris and most notably The Lost City, there are a few more eps but these are the ones that first srping to mind that I know and hope I will enjoy.

Liz

[cloudnine]

I have to say this episode is one of my faves from the whole of season 7. I have had many a chance to re-watch with the commentary as well.
I agree that the plot is fairly similar to pervious plots but the script really did play to MS strengths and I thought both he and Teryl were amazing in this episode.
The Bostonian accent Michael used I thought was amazing. I can't praise him high enough in this regard. I think he was simply amazing to be able to hold out attentions for that long with nothing but Teryl and a dark room to interact with.
The only scene which does annoy me and I think this most comes after watching the DVD with the commentary is the last scene when Daniel reawakens. RDA was never actually there to interact with the other actors for personal reasons. The camera keeps clipping back and forth from various characters and I really do see quite obviously that he was'nt there.