Should you sell your Arze?

[Lacedaemonian]

As a writer, do you think that you should write something mainstream, and marketable to get your foot in the door? Do you think this approach would work, with a view to getting your real work published later?

[I, Brian]

I would say that this is the approach I've taken. I wouldn't call it "selling your arze" though - simply realising and adapting to realities of the world.

A lot of aspiring writers equate "marketable" and "mainstream" with "intellectual void" and "creative impotence", and sneer whenever they use these terms.

However, all those great books we enjoyed and defined aspects of the genre were "mainstream" and "marketable".

I know a lot of aspirants are very prideful of their work - often to the point of being narcissic self-indulgent twerps, who exist in a world of their own self-perceived greatness, and demand the world conforms to them. I've been there.

But to succeed at anything in life you have to learn to adapt - even compromise - to achieve the most important goals. We compromise in our personal, social, and work relationships, all in different ways, to achieve different goals.

To myself writing should be no different. If an aspirant has the goal of being published by traditional paper print companies, then they absolutely need to take the publishing concerns to heart.

What is being asked is not "lack of originality", "mindless writing", or "generic talentless w@nk". Publishing companies - and agencies, of course - simply ask for a certain level of professionalism.

That means taking on board the technicalities of writing - Point of View (POW) use is especially important, and there are traps such as passive verbs to be cautious of. And when it comes to submitting your work, there are certain guidelines for submitting work that demand adherence.

That's all commercial publishing really demands to get your foot in the door. And if you can do that, then someone will read your story, and it will either take their imagination - or not, as the case may be.

Most people fail to do so from plain amateurism, though - because they have not attempted to understand anything of the very process they have written for.

I think it's Carole Blake, in "From Pitch to Publication", who makes a point that 96% of all submissions she gets are completely amateur and can be rejected outright with little thought. The next 3% simply don't capture her imagination enough, so they go back with an encouraging rejection letter. The other 1% - well, they get a fighting chance of fighting for the little attention left. That's the place every serious aspirant needs to be. And it doesn't actually take too much reading to see yourself that far.

Of course, from that point it may take a while to get your work accepted - but if you can reach that stage, then you are ripe for picking, and it's a case of remaining accessible for long enough.

From my understanding of the industry, anyway.

And as for your own writing - in all honesty, just write it - worry about the story first, and publishing second, if you want to write a story primarily as a story. But if you really want to shape your work for the industry, then there are a good few books recommendations here:
http://www.chronicles-network.net/wr...ks/writing.php

Note that there are plenty of good writer resources also here:
http://www.chronicles-network.net/writers/resources/

Hope that helps.

[Lacedaemonian]

I hope I did not come across badly there Brian. I was watching a TV program about a local woman who had been published this year. She got a £300,000 advance. Extracts from her book were read out throughout the program, and I could not help but think that it was a very simplistic story with limited style, vocab and narrative. Basically this woman is going to make millions writing something that I feel i could write with absolute ease.

I am going to buy this book to see what all the excitement is about. It was called Run For Home by Sheila Quigley. Here is a link to the synopsis:

http://www.randomhouse.co.uk/catalog...ata=1856868710

[polymorphikos]

The only things I've written are still sitting on my shelf, because I know they're not commercial even though they're what I'm best at. No publisher in their right mind would buy a 40,000 word, purple-prosed Victorian adventure story. So I definitely think you should conform to market values, then you can release books with slowly-shifting qualities that redefine what is commercial from the inside. Otherwise you're fighting a tank with a pistol. Get through the hatch and the tank is yours to drive.

[knivesout]

I'm sensitive to the fact that I have a modicum of talent - and a good way to go in understanding how to translate my vision and fathom its interesection-points with market needs. I'm in no hurry - it is important to master my own craft the hard way, through writing, re-writing and being rejected time and again - and also to fathom the different layers within the market. Not every writer follows the same path - and it's vital to understand the alternatives available and find the market that I am best suited to. There will always be compromise and modification in achieving a final marketable product, and I think that it should be seen in the perspective of a larger writing career. Having said that, I don't see myself churning out TolClone fantasy or Space Opera fare, but then there are many shades of accomodation in between onanistic obscurity and capitalist sell-out, and not all of them have to smack of a Faustian contract.

[I, Brian]

No problem - but it's the rarer stories that make the press. Most new novelists can expect a couple of grand, little more, as an advance, as the publisher expects to lose money on new signings - certainly until they've estasblished a small stable of quality titles behind themselves (written at a rate of 1-2 per year).

But the exceptions make the headlines - never the ordinary. Never judge events on the exceptions.

And if she doesn't sell enough books to cover that advance than she could be in a very bad financial position. Get your pounds from royalties, not advances.

2c again.

[Lacedaemonian]

Good points. You have to admit that £300,000 is a nice advance. Apparently she is expected to sell shed loads when it moves to paperback, and it had already been translated into German. It seemed like a very bland book to me, I feel like I am on acid.....

[Blue Mythril]

Hmmm, I guess I'm a bit of a snob when it comes to "writting ethics" (though I really have little experience as a writer, not having worked on a major composition in over two years). But I must admit that I have a lot more respect for authors that write their stuff without backing down to mainstream twaddle.
However, I can appreciate the necessity, especially if you are trying to kickstart your career.
I guess my main disdain is for those writers who either a) Are writing for interest and not a living and up copping out to the mainstream sellers, or b) Those who already have an established rep and end up copping out to mainstream and mass production in order to capitalise on said rep *cough* Robert Jordan *cough*. I have no respect for such authors.

But for fledglings, I really can't hold it against them, even with my "quality" ideals, I just can't argue against that...

[knivesout]

I feel like I am on acid.....

Reality frequently has this effect on me too.

[I, Brian]

Ah, but Blue Mythril, you already imply that "mainstream" and "commercial" therefore means "intellectually void" and "creative impotence".

A good novel doesn't need dumbling down - but the style of presentation needs to be carefully thought out. That's what publishers are looking for, amongst other things - a general level of professionalism in the script and presentation of.

I agree that sometimes writers will simply write for the money earned, rather than because they feel they have any particularly amazing insights into humanity that they wish to share. These writers serve a market, and exist to serve this very market. Still darn hard to get into.

But those who feel that they have something really worthwhile to say, by my argument, need to think about how to frame their words in a manner most likely to be acceptable to publishers.

And in that is simply a standard of excellence required - Point of View issues is a simple amateur mistake to make - and will not make a pleasant experience for a reader.

I see a close parallel with sport: if you want to succeed in a certain sport, and have the ability, you might want to try for your country's olympic team - go as high as you can go. But that means working by a certain routine, and training and working with a certain level of professionalism, as required.

However, some Sunday joggers might see that as selling out - after all, they can run when they want, train when they want, and enjoying as they want. But if any sunday jogger claims that the ones seeking places in the olympic team are therefore "sell-outs" because they work to a different criteria, then obviously the more fool them. Who's going to watch them run? If they have real talent, who's to see?

Yet all too often I see aspirants - especially in my days on other forums - who behave like small-minded Sunday joggers - they will write what they want, in their own way and own time, and sod the "sell-outs" aiming for traditional print.

These are almost certainly the same people who spam links to their little geocities sites about SFF forums, desperate to drum up attention for their work - because at the end of the day, the world wants to see the olympic teams tested, not watch Sunday joggers.

Of course, if someone simply wants to do Sunday jogging, then there's aboslutely wrong with simply doing that. It's all about setting out aims and working to them. After all, just sometimes, though, Sunday joggers find that they may want to advance through to a more competitive level.

Rage on.

[Lacedaemonian]

But does the jogger run in the 100m, or the steeplechase?

[I, Brian]

Heh, at some point the runner takes up running because its fun. What aims and specialities are taken up after are entirely the runner's concern.

I simply find the idea that "mainstream=sell-out" is an oft bandied fallacy in aspirant writer forums - sff as a genre was *not* built on self-publishing and POD. But aspiring writers are easily filled with insecurities and bitterness.

There is nothing wrong with self-publishing and POD either - but this absolutely has to be the author's aim in the first place - to write a story for enjoyment of it, and share it with a small group of others. I know people who have done this and I respect them for it. But going the self-publishing route in the hope that a big publishing house will pick it up and sign you up would be a big mistake - unrealistic and unprofessional.

Of course, published writing does cover a lot of different target markets, too - not least, different age-groups, who demand different things from their reading. So sometimes the quality of work and authors may seem variable, but I would suggest that this is simply because it is aimed at different market groups.

2c.

(Btw - if anyone disagrees with myself then do feel free to express your opinion - I simply like the subject of discussion ).

[Lacedaemonian]

Arze selling is a good subject. I was considering selling my arze; by writing for a genre that I have no interest in but is much more marketable and writing simplistic prose etc for a wider target audience. After several years of screwing the arze out of that market, then I move into Fantasy writing...

Can you imagine if Catherine Cookson had suddenly started to write SF/Fantasy? Funny as.

[I, Brian]

No, start in the genre you feel for. Even just trying to get published is such a slog, that you really need to keep heart in what you're doing. And if you don't believe in it in the first place, then probably not in the least recommended.

When I first tried writing fantasy I hadn't a clue about the market - so when I tried writing sf for commercial markets, I made sure I researched it first.

Keeping the faith as an aspirant is really hard - can be pretty exhausting just trying. I often liken it to climbing a mountain - only, every time you haul yourself up one section, thinking you've reahed the peak, you look up and find a big cliff-face staring down on you - steel self for the next stage. So you really do need some sense of self-belief that what you are writing means something.

2c.

[Lacedaemonian]

I am about 500 pages away from worrying about that stuff, then I will hound the hell out of you mate for advice.