Fantasy Publishers

[Greg72]

Hi,

I am new to the forum and wondered whether anyone would like to share their experiences of publishers or agents.

My novel is a bit of a monster (225,000 words) but on completion I went through the whole recommended process of trying to get an agent interested then when that didn't work I went direct to the publishers and again had no luck.
I was firstly struck by the lack of agents interested in fantasy or at least fantasy from new writers. Where there was potential according to the listings I rang the agent and talked to them and only posted to those who'd said yes. When I did post my submissions I think it was only to about five agents in the whole of the UK. I had some positive feedback but no catch. (What did irk me was agents who I'd spoken to and said were interested in new writers who then rejected by post on the basis that they weren't taking on new writers!)

Similarly then with publishers. There were only four of the big eight who would consider fantasy and only two who accepted submissions direct without an agent. One rejected fairly quickly then Orbit who said they'd reply within three months actually took ten months to say no. I learned that I'd passed stage one (weeding out the obviously poor stuff) but then finally was rejected.

I know a lot of this is just the industry but considering the research and advice I've looked at (which I'm sure isn't exhaustive) says that for the fantasy market new writers are recommended to get a publisher involved first, I find the second part of this very worrying. Who is there to go to? How can the unknown writer fight back?

Perhaps others might want to add their own horror stories and we can pool information to find a way forward.

Thanks for reading.

[I, Brian]

Hi Greg - and welcome to the chronicles-network.

I can certainly appreciate your frustrations - been there myself a little.

A big part of the problem is the fact that the agents and co only want the cream of the submissions, and that means a couple of things are required by my understanding:

1/ A proper understanding of the genre market being targeted
2/ Third-party editing before submission
3/ Submission of a professional standard.

Point one is that you should read how your market works. I never did when I first started submiting - never understood the technicalities, or how the industry works.

Point two is recommended - at elast, to the extent of getting your first 3 chapters edited by people who actually understand English in it's technical form - ie, can criticise use of adverbs, mis-placed past participles, etc.

The third point is actually pretty serious - with the volume of submissions in the industry, it has become remarkably easy to sort the wheat from the chaff - read this article here to see how:

http://www.chronicles-network.net/wr...ors/advice.php


And for general writer resources, try here:
http://www.chronicles-network.net/writers/resources/


Personally not published - yet - but by being forewarned next time, I don't intend to face defeat so easily.

[Mark Robson]

I also know how you feel. I had my first book rejected twice by publishers and 7 times by agents. In the end I had a single copy made up in hardback for me and thought 'stuff 'em all'... or words to that effect.

By lending the books to friends and visitors, I compiled a lot of positive feedback over the space of a couple of years. In the end I kind of cheated and self-published. This is not a process for the faint of heart, or the penniless! It requires the investment of a significant amount of money with the understanding that you may never recover it... and you may end up with a house, or in my case, a garage full of books.

There are many pitfalls to self-publishing which are far too numerous and involved to list here, but suffice it to say that you should not leap in without doing a huge amount of homework. I made just about every mistake going, but I was lucky enough to have enough gall and enthusiasm to get past the problems and end up in profit. I will shortly run the 5th print run of my first novel and have 3 other self-published titles also in multiples of print runs, but just getting the book into print is only a tiny part of the process. You might produce the best book in the world, but without proper marketing, it will fail. This, I feel, is a totally new thread altogether.

In conclusion, I don't know what the answer is to getting published by the mainstream publishers other than constantly asking people if they know anyone in the business, and networking. It seems that getting known by the right people is often as important as writing well. Sorry to be negative, but the statistics are horrifying. Editors get at least one submission a day from agents alone... the agents have already whittled those from goodness knows how many, and the editors will then get more directly from authors... the answer? Who knows?

[Phoenix]

I know it can be hard to get your work out there. had to go for self publishing instead of meeting other deadends. If you believe in your work and are willing to put a bit of money in it. I would recommend you do the same.
The editing house I went for is iUniverse.

I was please with the job. You can check out my book there by searching my real name "Taly Danan".

I know there exist the same kind of print on demand service in UK, I just don't know where it is. But you can look for it.

have fun!

[I, Brian]

It's certainly a tough business Mark - and I'm impressed that you've actually turned your writing into a self-published busniess. Too many people see self-publishing as a way to "cheat" the system - having to avoid all the hard work, research, and patience required in getting traditionally print published - and then expect to be suddenly "discovered" by an agent. That's the impression I'm given by some, and it obviously doesn't run that way.

[Mark Robson]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

It's certainly a tough business Mark - and I'm impressed that you've actually turned your writing into a self-published busniess. Too many people see self-publishing as a way to "cheat" the system - having to avoid all the hard work, research, and patience required in getting traditionally print published - and then expect to be suddenly "discovered" by an agent. That's the impression I'm given by some, and it obviously doesn't run that way.

If I'm honest, I treated the whole thing as one big hobby until last year when things really started to accelerate. People spend money on hobbies - I'm lucky - mine makes money, but not enough to live on. My sales have climbed exponentially, but only due to a vast amount of effort and a lot of sacrifices on my part. I did a thousand books the first year, two and a half the second, about four thousand in the third year and well over ten thousand in the last year. Not surprisingly, this has got me noticed.

I'm really pleased to be able to add that I've just received an email this evening from the editor of Simon & Shuster advising me to expect an offer in the next 2 days for my latest title. At last! It has now been about 7 years since I first sat down and wrote the opening sentances to 'The Forging of the Sword' (my first novel) in the Falklands. I don't doubt that their offer will be paltry when compared with the advances of established authors, but it's a foot in the door and they've been talking about 2-3 book deals in the meetings that I've had so far, so things are looking very positive right now.

I did not get an agent from nowhere - but in the end they did come to me. I had already got a licencing agent before I finally got a literary agent. The licencing agent is poised to deal with TV, Film, Computer games etc, should the book deal come through. The literary agent came (of all places) from a contact I made in the head office of Waterstones - who read and enjoyed my books, but hated the covers. He asked me if I really wanted to stay self-published... well, what would you answer?! When I said no, of course not, he instantly went out and started speaking to agents that he was friendly with and before I knew it they were emailing me looking for a meeting. It's a long and very involved story, so I won't bore you with the entire episode now, but I met the Waterstones man through chance and it all went from there.

If I can do it, there's hope for everyone - believe me. My sole writing qualification is a B at O level English!

[knivesout]

I wish Michael, one of our members, was around. He'd gone the self-publishing route as well, it would have been interesting to see how that worked out for him. I think Mark's experience is interesting - in that, a self-publishing hobby has eventually built enough momentum to break into mainstream publishing. This is similar to the way in which some of intersting writers in recent times have come up - they went through the small presses and indy magazines, and eventually built up enough of a buzz to attract the attention of a big publisher.

[littlemissattitude]

I've always been very leery of self-publishing, afraid that if I ever indulged in that, then mainstream publishers would never take my writing seriously...no matter how good my work is (not that I'm making any claims here). I even wonder sometimes if my blogging will make it look as if I'm not interested in writing as a serious endeavour. It hasn't stopped me from doing it so far, but still I get nervous about it sometimes.

Of course, if I don't get back to work, I'm not going to have anything worth publishing. I do a lot of my work in the local library. It's hard to get anything done at home, as there are interruptions that I can't avoid there. Also, my printer has decided that it is on strike, so if I want to print anything out I have to do it there (and pay ten cents a page for it ). I try to find times to go to the library when there aren't a million people in there...mostly young and loud. But since school has started again, my sense of when the kids are there is all fouled up and I usually end up getting there right about the time the kids are getting out of school and congregating around the library's computers. It's very difficult to concentrate when there is so much noise and so much going on. Looks like I'm going to have to start rousing myself out of bed a bit earlier and going in before lunch rather than after.

[I, Brian]

Mark, I like how you emphasise the hard work involved - I think all too often that element is overlooked, in any discipline.

[Mark Robson]

It's like anything else you do, Brian. What you get out is normally directly proportional to what you put in. I have done more 18-20 hour days over the last 4 years than I care to think about, but it now looks as if it will finally begin to pay off.

[knivesout]

Discipline, and humility. As a fiction writer, all I have to my credit thus far are rejections (although I can take some comfort in knowing that some of my non-fiction has been published, and it payed fairly well too). I've heard of people reacting very badly to these things, but I think it just serves as a reality check and an incentive to raise the bar on my own writing. I realise that, often, merit is secondary to saleability in the publishing world, but you don't get to be the editor of a paying magazine without knowing a thing or two about good writing.