7.13: The Killer in Me - Page 2 - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Highlander II · 13th February 2003, 04:51 PM

mini-commentary on Spike's chip --

I think what they ended up with, was that it was all based on 'intent' - ie: the toy gun incident - (and this might have been a change the writers / PTB made and altered as they chose) - Spike's intentions were to hurt Xander and Anya, thus, even though it was a toy gun, the chip didn't know that - the chip only knew Spike intended to hurt the two humans - so 'zap' -

Remember in "FFL" - he was swinging his fists at Buffy - and she asks him why he didn't get a headache, to which he said "I knew I couldn't touch you. As long as there's no intent to hurt you, that chip they shoved up my brain never activates. If, on the other hand..." <morphs into vamp face and proceeds to snarl at Buffy, making a half-hearted attemp to try to bite her> - and he gets zapped (though, he knew there wasn't a chance he'd be able to bite her then either, so, not really sure - guess his *intent* was to try to hurt Buffy, so zap the noggin) -

Though, again, very sophisticated piece of technology - geeez - it knows what Spike's thinking?

Spike and demons -->

He got paid at first - yeah - sure, and he went to the Scoobies to hide from the Initiative and such (and I'm still not really sure why the Initiative was so eager to get Hostile 17 back - he couldn't hurt anyone, what did they want? to study vampires and find out how to make them all stop hunting humans? Good luck - that's like telling a human not to breathe); then he would help if they just asked (maybe b/c he was in love w/ Buffy, maybe b/c he wanted to get his rocks off fighting demons, who knows), but Buffy would still beat the every-living snot out of him as a way of asking him to help - all she had to do was ask, he would have helped; what was she trying to prove by beating him up? That was more like the little boy who dunks the girl's pig-tails in the ink at school -- Buffy even said so, in "Crush" - "Well, I do beat him up alot. To Spike, that's like third base." -- hello - B, if you *knew* he got off on getting beat up - why did ya still do it? I don't understand Buffy - she doesn't want him following her around and mooning over her, but she does things she *knows* will make him do that --- I think Buffy's got the attachment issues here, not Spike --

And there actually might have been a point in there somewhere - but damned if I can find it again -----

think I'm done ranting - for now -

Dru · 14th February 2003, 01:31 AM

Quote:

but Buffy would still beat the every-living snot out of him as a way of asking him to help - all she had to do was ask, he would have helped; what was she trying to prove by beating him up?

Well you see the thing is Buffy is and always has been a cruel, heartless, bitch who enjoys inflicting pain on someone who can't hit back.

From the moment Spike got the chip she beat him anytime she wanted help, wanted info, or just felt like it.

He had nothing else to do as we can clearly see by the fact that he's always F-ing there when she comes to beat him. He would have helped even if she just said "Spike help." or something. But she chose to beat him into a pile of goo anytime she wanted. Just cuz she could.

She knew no one would tell her not too. She knew no one would care what happened to him. Hell look at Dead Things and the next ep at her Birthday. Did one person ask what happened to him? Did Buffy even look guilty about what she did? No. No one cared at all.

Tabitha · 8th March 2003, 06:25 PM

Getting back to Amy and the First.

I think this is an question that we can't answer from this ep. Maybe it gets answered soon, but one the one hand there is the corporeal thing, and the fact that Amy has her own reasons for wanting to get back at Williow, but on the other, did anyone notice Amy say something along the lines of "Its the power"? She followed it up with her own particular context, but in previous episodes it has been pointed out in the discussions that the first likes to mention power.

Giles and the other watcher guy - Hobson, Robson, whatever.
The choices here seem to be that 1) Giles ducked and defeated the eyeless dude and the First pretended to be the other watcher on the phone to Xander, or 2) Giles died, and the First is masquerading as him, and the other watcher's phone convo was legit.

Personally I am leaning towards the former.

I wonder if perhaps the First isn't only limited to impersonating dead people?

tabuno · 9th March 2003, 01:05 AM

from H2: Spoiler warning about the arc at the end of this season

Somebody major is going to die before the end of the series - but who? Dawn? Buffy? Willow? I can't imagine Xander going down. Buffy dying is possible since she's going anyway.

edited to add spoiler tags, this is kind of a big one and should have been in the "Spoiler Country" thread - I already knew, so it didn't spoil me, but it might, others

Tabitha · 9th March 2003, 01:19 AM

Is that a spoiler or speculation?

Highlander II · 9th March 2003, 01:25 AM

Tabitha - from what I've heard - it's spoiler --

covered it to prevent further 'revelations' --

I knew about it - someone told me ---

Tabitha · 9th March 2003, 01:56 AM

I should be caught up to date in a few days, still trying to avoid all the spoilers though. That one was kinda vague, so it's okay.

obcooke · 1st April 2003, 04:08 AM

Just wanted to add this recent tongue-in-cheek comment from Buffy writer, Drew Goddard:

"Maybe the writers should spend less time playing golf and more time figuring out how you can fill something with concrete AND burn it down AND salt the Earth AND then go back there later."

Highlander II · 1st April 2003, 03:21 PM

hehe -- that's pretty funny --

however - maybe they should spend less time playing golf and more time thinking about 'continuity'? huh? come on - this show's been mostly great for continuity and such - but man - geeez - get the BIG stuff right!

Brit Chick · 11th April 2003, 01:49 PM

OK - I just wanna know one thing

If we now think Giles did survive and its really him

When is he going to take that bloody coat off!!!!!

Highlander II · 11th April 2003, 04:26 PM

Dunno -- he might take it off someday ---

Spike and that chip--- (I just reread this thread - we had some good stuff going on) -- and ya know what - I was gonna say something and I lost it -- darn it ---

Although, I think the reason Buffy used to beat up Spike was b/c she didn't want to admit that she's in love with him... she knew he got off on it --

*idly wonders how many arguments *that's* gonna start*

markpud · 15th April 2003, 03:25 PM

I don't think that's true at all.. she wasn't in love with him then, nor now. And I don't think at that time she realised how stisted Spike's feelings were, or that he could have taken any sexual pleaseure from being beaten.

Moving on, this was a good episode, lots going on, but not so much SITs, who are frankly annoying most of the time..

So we finally answered the question of was Giles killed, no he wasn't, but I'd love to know how he managed to avoid that axe blow...

Turning Willow into Warren was really interesting, and also good for some top quality moments, like Andrew grabbing him/her in a bad place

Although quite why he was so glad to see Warren???

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that the Initiative had been filled in with concrete - I guess the budget for that was pulled huh? But if all those soldiers were in there, then they either brought the demon with them to test Buffy, or it was already there, in which case how did all of them get in without it noticing??

As for the chiop decision, Buffy has to give Spike a say here, it is his head, but can she allow it to be removed simply because Spike has a soul? He has killed since he got the soul, although it is believed he was under the influence of the First. But we have only Spike's word for that.. But if it was removed, which I suspect it will be, I'm 99% certain that somewhere along hte line Spike will kill again, and then it will be Buffy's fault.

Incidentally, I'm surprised at the soldiers agreeing to take out the chip, if Buffy chooses, surely they wouldn't believe that 17 has a soul, nor that the soul would make him safe. So we're now to believe that they are acting soley on Riley's say-so?

Highlander II · 15th April 2003, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by markpud
I don't think that's true at all.. she wasn't in love with him then, nor now. And I don't think at that time she realised how stisted Spike's feelings were, or that he could have taken any sexual pleaseure from being beaten.

Did you say this just to make me argue with you?

Um - from "Crush"

Buffy: Well, I do beat him up alot. For Spike, that's like 3rd base.

From "First Date"

Buffy: Why does everyone think I'm still in love with Spike?

From "Fool For Love"

Buffy: (about Spike killing the Chinese Slayer) "You got off on it." (with a disgusted look)
Spike: "Well, yeah." (looks at Buffy like she's stupid)

Sorry, mark - she was and may still be in love with Spike. AND she knows that he gets off on violence and killing and being beaten up. And those are just 3 quotes - I'm sure I can find more.

markpud · 15th April 2003, 03:50 PM

hmm, okay you may have a point, I'll get back to you - gotta rush off now...

Highlander II · 15th April 2003, 09:00 PM

I'll be waiting....

9th March 2003, 01:05 AM	#19 (permalink)
tabuno Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Utah, USA Posts: 69	Five Part Story Arc from H2: Spoiler warning about the arc at the end of this season Somebody major is going to die before the end of the series - but who? Dawn? Buffy? Willow? I can't imagine Xander going down. Buffy dying is possible since she's going anyway. edited to add spoiler tags, this is kind of a big one and should have been in the "Spoiler Country" thread - I already knew, so it didn't spoil me, but it might, others

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13th February 2003, 04:51 PM	#16 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	mini-commentary on Spike's chip -- I think what they ended up with, was that it was all based on 'intent' - ie: the toy gun incident - (and this might have been a change the writers / PTB made and altered as they chose) - Spike's intentions were to hurt Xander and Anya, thus, even though it was a toy gun, the chip didn't know that - the chip only knew Spike intended to hurt the two humans - so 'zap' - Remember in "FFL" - he was swinging his fists at Buffy - and she asks him why he didn't get a headache, to which he said "I knew I couldn't touch you. As long as there's no intent to hurt you, that chip they shoved up my brain never activates. If, on the other hand..." <morphs into vamp face and proceeds to snarl at Buffy, making a half-hearted attemp to try to bite her> - and he gets zapped (though, he knew there wasn't a chance he'd be able to bite her then either, so, not really sure - guess his intent was to try to hurt Buffy, so zap the noggin) - Though, again, very sophisticated piece of technology - geeez - it knows what Spike's thinking? Spike and demons --> He got paid at first - yeah - sure, and he went to the Scoobies to hide from the Initiative and such (and I'm still not really sure why the Initiative was so eager to get Hostile 17 back - he couldn't hurt anyone, what did they want? to study vampires and find out how to make them all stop hunting humans? Good luck - that's like telling a human not to breathe); then he would help if they just asked (maybe b/c he was in love w/ Buffy, maybe b/c he wanted to get his rocks off fighting demons, who knows), but Buffy would still beat the every-living snot out of him as a way of asking him to help - all she had to do was ask, he would have helped; what was she trying to prove by beating him up? That was more like the little boy who dunks the girl's pig-tails in the ink at school -- Buffy even said so, in "Crush" - "Well, I do beat him up alot. To Spike, that's like third base." -- hello - B, if you knew he got off on getting beat up - why did ya still do it? I don't understand Buffy - she doesn't want him following her around and mooning over her, but she does things she knows will make him do that --- I think Buffy's got the attachment issues here, not Spike -- And there actually might have been a point in there somewhere - but damned if I can find it again ----- think I'm done ranting - for now -

8th March 2003, 06:25 PM	#18 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	Getting back to Amy and the First. I think this is an question that we can't answer from this ep. Maybe it gets answered soon, but one the one hand there is the corporeal thing, and the fact that Amy has her own reasons for wanting to get back at Williow, but on the other, did anyone notice Amy say something along the lines of "Its the power"? She followed it up with her own particular context, but in previous episodes it has been pointed out in the discussions that the first likes to mention power. Giles and the other watcher guy - Hobson, Robson, whatever. The choices here seem to be that 1) Giles ducked and defeated the eyeless dude and the First pretended to be the other watcher on the phone to Xander, or 2) Giles died, and the First is masquerading as him, and the other watcher's phone convo was legit. Personally I am leaning towards the former. I wonder if perhaps the First isn't only limited to impersonating dead people?

9th March 2003, 01:19 AM	#20 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	Is that a spoiler or speculation?

9th March 2003, 01:25 AM	#21 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	Tabitha - from what I've heard - it's spoiler -- covered it to prevent further 'revelations' -- I knew about it - someone told me ---

9th March 2003, 01:56 AM	#22 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	I should be caught up to date in a few days, still trying to avoid all the spoilers though. That one was kinda vague, so it's okay.

1st April 2003, 04:08 AM	#23 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	Just wanted to add this recent tongue-in-cheek comment from Buffy writer, Drew Goddard: "Maybe the writers should spend less time playing golf and more time figuring out how you can fill something with concrete AND burn it down AND salt the Earth AND then go back there later."

1st April 2003, 03:21 PM	#24 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	hehe -- that's pretty funny -- however - maybe they should spend less time playing golf and more time thinking about 'continuity'? huh? come on - this show's been mostly great for continuity and such - but man - geeez - get the BIG stuff right!

11th April 2003, 01:49 PM	#25 (permalink)
Brit Chick Ooh look - shiny things ! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: London Posts: 277	OK - I just wanna know one thing If we now think Giles did survive and its really him When is he going to take that bloody coat off!!!!!

11th April 2003, 04:26 PM	#26 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	Dunno -- he might take it off someday --- Spike and that chip--- (I just reread this thread - we had some good stuff going on) -- and ya know what - I was gonna say something and I lost it -- darn it --- Although, I think the reason Buffy used to beat up Spike was b/c she didn't want to admit that she's in love with him... she knew he got off on it -- idly wonders how many arguments that's* gonna start*

15th April 2003, 03:25 PM	#27 (permalink)
markpud Super-Mod to the gods Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: with Buffy, in Manchester, England... Posts: 4,732	I don't think that's true at all.. she wasn't in love with him then, nor now. And I don't think at that time she realised how stisted Spike's feelings were, or that he could have taken any sexual pleaseure from being beaten. Moving on, this was a good episode, lots going on, but not so much SITs, who are frankly annoying most of the time.. So we finally answered the question of was Giles killed, no he wasn't, but I'd love to know how he managed to avoid that axe blow... Turning Willow into Warren was really interesting, and also good for some top quality moments, like Andrew grabbing him/her in a bad place Although quite why he was so glad to see Warren??? I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that the Initiative had been filled in with concrete - I guess the budget for that was pulled huh? But if all those soldiers were in there, then they either brought the demon with them to test Buffy, or it was already there, in which case how did all of them get in without it noticing?? As for the chiop decision, Buffy has to give Spike a say here, it is his head, but can she allow it to be removed simply because Spike has a soul? He has killed since he got the soul, although it is believed he was under the influence of the First. But we have only Spike's word for that.. But if it was removed, which I suspect it will be, I'm 99% certain that somewhere along hte line Spike will kill again, and then it will be Buffy's fault. Incidentally, I'm surprised at the soldiers agreeing to take out the chip, if Buffy chooses, surely they wouldn't believe that 17 has a soul, nor that the soul would make him safe. So we're now to believe that they are acting soley on Riley's say-so?

15th April 2003, 03:50 PM	#29 (permalink)
markpud Super-Mod to the gods Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: with Buffy, in Manchester, England... Posts: 4,732	hmm, okay you may have a point, I'll get back to you - gotta rush off now...

15th April 2003, 09:00 PM	#30 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,446	I'll be waiting....