The style of the new trilogy has left me feeling only half full. - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Jalfrezi · 23rd January 2003, 03:22 PM

Is it just me who's noticed a distinct difference in style between the original trilogy (OT) and the new trilogy (NT):
- the OT was about three friends (Luke, Leia and Han). You knew who the bad guys were, you knew who the good guys were. There was nothing complex about it. It was fun.
- the NT is all about politics. There is no longer a clear-cut good side or bad side - just two sides of "a necessary evil" (politics). You could argue the Jedi are the good guys OR the bad guys. You could argue that Palpatine is merely a sly politician seeking power - which politician doesn't

The problem for me lies in that George Lucas knew what he was going on about in the OT but in the NT he has lost his way and is not explaining things fully, leaving gaping holes in people's understanding.
In the OT it was black and white. In the NT there are shades of grey. Yes, it is more complex. But complexity requires explanation if it is to be successful. And GL doesn't provide that sufficiently.

For example:
What has Palpatine/Sidious done so far that has made him "evil" other than a few political manoeuvres? He makes himself powerful through the same means that George W Bush does - political manoeuvres that make him popular - or at least obeyed.
Why should we believe the Jedi are "good" if they are so arrogant and can manipulate people's will so easily?
Is the Republic really worth fighting for - it is ineffective afterall?
Why would people want to go back to that?

I could go on.

My point is that the OT was simple in its message - good guys v bad guys. You knew who each was and GL wove an enjoyable trilogy around it - with a couple of twists along the way. Things weren't explained because they didn't have to be.
The NT is far more complex and leaves too many inconsitencies. However enjoyable they may be, and I do enjoy E1 and E2, they leave me with a sense of emptiness, like leaving a banquet with your stomach only half full yet the tables covered in riches.

Anyone wish to add their comments to this?

ray gower · 23rd January 2003, 07:37 PM

Actually I always thought the OT was about R2D2 and C3PO, they even admit as much in the introductory nonsense on the video for the first film, Phantom Menace.

But otherwise I agree almost totally.

Each of the first two films in the new series has opened up more bewildering questions than the whole of the original. Whilst the originals could be watched without seeing having to see its partners, anybody who were to watch Clone Wars without seeing Phantom Menace has no chance.

The problem here, seems to be that the link that ties all the different threads together to bring us to the events of New Hope have yet to be established by more than somewhat tenuous circumstances. We know they exist, because we have seen the sequel. I think anybody coming to the Star Wars saga afresh and starting from the prequl is in for a torrid time.

On the otherhand the fans are getting almost exactly what they have been asking about. How did the Federation break and the Empire come about. Which would always have to be an intrigue.

So far it looks as though the Federation destroyed itself.

timdgreat · 23rd January 2003, 08:52 PM

Well i agree with both of u, it would seem that George has lost his way. Hes giving us a confused plot when it should be clear cut. and he has backed himself into a corner he has to fill in so many details to connect episode 3 with the Ot that i think hes going to have some problems and mabye a bad movie.

Diamond9697 · 24th January 2003, 05:13 PM

I think a lot of the problem is that GL seems to expect us to already know or to have deduced a lot of things so he doesn't cover them, thus the big gaping holes. Whether it's because some of it is covered in EU, which not everyone has read all of or even some of, or what I don't know but it's making the NT pretty hard to follow.

pkgrl · 26th January 2003, 04:15 PM

Well, I agree that there are inconsistancies and plot holes, but I think GL expects most fans to already know the conclusions to certain problems, thus he doesn't have to explain (in his mind). While there are plenty of people out there who were never into the OT and thus never read anything about them, relying only on the films themselves, there are those of us who are the opposite and the NT has left us with just enough questions to say, I hope GL fills in those gaps.

My brother-in-law is a perfect example of the former SW fan. He never got into the OT, never even saw ESB or ROTJ in the theater, but only recently watched the OT on video because his young son IS into them. When my b-i-l saw TPM and AOTC he absolutely LOVED them. He was intrigued by the political manuvers and doesn't mind at all that there are still unanswered questions. He thinks they are much better than the OT, probably because of the ambiguities between good and evil.

Personally, I'm willing to wait and see how Ep III does in explaning all before I say that GL did a good or bad job overall. There are problems with the NT, obviously, but I'm just suspending judgement until I see them all.

23rd January 2003, 03:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jalfrezi Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Boundary of the imagination Posts: 5	The style of the new trilogy has left me feeling only half full. Is it just me who's noticed a distinct difference in style between the original trilogy (OT) and the new trilogy (NT): - the OT was about three friends (Luke, Leia and Han). You knew who the bad guys were, you knew who the good guys were. There was nothing complex about it. It was fun. - the NT is all about politics. There is no longer a clear-cut good side or bad side - just two sides of "a necessary evil" (politics). You could argue the Jedi are the good guys OR the bad guys. You could argue that Palpatine is merely a sly politician seeking power - which politician doesn't The problem for me lies in that George Lucas knew what he was going on about in the OT but in the NT he has lost his way and is not explaining things fully, leaving gaping holes in people's understanding. In the OT it was black and white. In the NT there are shades of grey. Yes, it is more complex. But complexity requires explanation if it is to be successful. And GL doesn't provide that sufficiently. For example: What has Palpatine/Sidious done so far that has made him "evil" other than a few political manoeuvres? He makes himself powerful through the same means that George W Bush does - political manoeuvres that make him popular - or at least obeyed. Why should we believe the Jedi are "good" if they are so arrogant and can manipulate people's will so easily? Is the Republic really worth fighting for - it is ineffective afterall? Why would people want to go back to that? I could go on. My point is that the OT was simple in its message - good guys v bad guys. You knew who each was and GL wove an enjoyable trilogy around it - with a couple of twists along the way. Things weren't explained because they didn't have to be. The NT is far more complex and leaves too many inconsitencies. However enjoyable they may be, and I do enjoy E1 and E2, they leave me with a sense of emptiness, like leaving a banquet with your stomach only half full yet the tables covered in riches. Anyone wish to add their comments to this?

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23rd January 2003, 07:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
ray gower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gwynedd Posts: 3,579	Actually I always thought the OT was about R2D2 and C3PO, they even admit as much in the introductory nonsense on the video for the first film, Phantom Menace. But otherwise I agree almost totally. Each of the first two films in the new series has opened up more bewildering questions than the whole of the original. Whilst the originals could be watched without seeing having to see its partners, anybody who were to watch Clone Wars without seeing Phantom Menace has no chance. The problem here, seems to be that the link that ties all the different threads together to bring us to the events of New Hope have yet to be established by more than somewhat tenuous circumstances. We know they exist, because we have seen the sequel. I think anybody coming to the Star Wars saga afresh and starting from the prequl is in for a torrid time. On the otherhand the fans are getting almost exactly what they have been asking about. How did the Federation break and the Empire come about. Which would always have to be an intrigue. So far it looks as though the Federation destroyed itself.

23rd January 2003, 08:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
timdgreat For the Emperor Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Alexandria VA, USA(Washington DC u idiots) Posts: 3,093	Well i agree with both of u, it would seem that George has lost his way. Hes giving us a confused plot when it should be clear cut. and he has backed himself into a corner he has to fill in so many details to connect episode 3 with the Ot that i think hes going to have some problems and mabye a bad movie.

24th January 2003, 05:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
Diamond9697 Lookin Good Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,872	I think a lot of the problem is that GL seems to expect us to already know or to have deduced a lot of things so he doesn't cover them, thus the big gaping holes. Whether it's because some of it is covered in EU, which not everyone has read all of or even some of, or what I don't know but it's making the NT pretty hard to follow.

26th January 2003, 04:15 PM	#5 (permalink)
pkgrl Ultimate J/A shipper! Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 2,423	Well, I agree that there are inconsistancies and plot holes, but I think GL expects most fans to already know the conclusions to certain problems, thus he doesn't have to explain (in his mind). While there are plenty of people out there who were never into the OT and thus never read anything about them, relying only on the films themselves, there are those of us who are the opposite and the NT has left us with just enough questions to say, I hope GL fills in those gaps. My brother-in-law is a perfect example of the former SW fan. He never got into the OT, never even saw ESB or ROTJ in the theater, but only recently watched the OT on video because his young son IS into them. When my b-i-l saw TPM and AOTC he absolutely LOVED them. He was intrigued by the political manuvers and doesn't mind at all that there are still unanswered questions. He thinks they are much better than the OT, probably because of the ambiguities between good and evil. Personally, I'm willing to wait and see how Ep III does in explaning all before I say that GL did a good or bad job overall. There are problems with the NT, obviously, but I'm just suspending judgement until I see them all.