Does Harry Potter promote the Occult?

[pyan]

Originally Posted by Dave

Harry Potter and the Antichrist by Joseph Chambers

This now goes to "Error 404" Dave, by the way.
Shame, I'd have liked to read the whole thing.

And as for this new item.....what next, a proclamation about watching "Bewitched", "Charmed", or "Sabrina, the Teenage Witch"?
You'd think that the Vatican would have more important things to occupy their minds.....

[Dave]

I've found it for you:
Paw Creek Ministries Charlotte, NC Churches :: Churches in Charlotte, North Carolina

As for The Golden Compass and The Da Vinci Code - I don't think they should be banned either, but I would separate those out, because Phillip Pullman does have an agenda to attack organised religions, and the Da Vinci Code does make some sweeping statements about the Catholic Church.

On the other hand, JK Rowling was celebrated by the previous Pope for her Christian values. Her books do not attack Christianity and the Vatican and will gain nothing if they take a moral high ground. This was the same Pope who tried to cover-up paedophilia by Priests when he was a Cardinal. Considering all the dangers kids face today around the world, this is what they deem important.

[pyan]

Thanks, Dave.
It should be a set text in university English courses as an example of distortion, selective quotation and cherrypicking....
Do these people realise what transubstation actually is?

[Reading_fanatic]

Man that was a messed up article and I still can't see where he gets his gripe from because by the looks of things from his reasoning ALL books should be banned except perhaps the bible which is stupid. IMO

[Lith]

Christianity has been one gigantic, improbable crisis since its inception. (And this is coming from a Christian, mind you.)

Do these people realise what transubstation actually is?

Do you mean transubstantiation??

The current pope is a little different than the previous one. He seems a bit more legalistic, whereas John Paul II had a more open and generous spirit about him. Popes are still allowed to have personal opinions, and Harry Potter is one where Christians themselves can't agree. Personally, I think it boils down to why we're not supposed to indulge magic, which is something I don't see brought up in discussion much. And being a Christian that loves Harry Potter, loves fantasy, and doesn't excuse anything merely because it's "fiction", I always seem to be on the outs with everyone. Heck, it's taken five years just to win over my father. Now he sits down and watches the movies whenever they're on.

Also remember that this is the Pope, and there's a good portion of the Christian Church as a whole that still considers him the Antichrist.

edit: I do think they're a little grey morally, possibly a little new-agey, but not more so than 80% of the market.

[yellowbird2525]

This was an excellent series; and Christians have read it & found no problems; others found problems because it "involved chants"; but some people like to complain & find fault about everything; my sister said some people at her church were complaining; i gave her the book & she said she could find nothing to complain about. it was a good story; much ado was made over the Wizard of Oz also; some people if given $1m would complain about having to pay taxes on it rather than rejoice in the funds received. I simply ask if they are constipated to give them such a surly disposition & normally never see them again!

[hlywkar]

That article seems old... I am curious, now knowing the ending, if they have more to bitch about or less.

[pyan]

Originally Posted by Lith

Do you mean transubstantiation??

That's the word! Close, but not quite....

[iansales]

Many years ago, I was a member of a role-playing group in my home town of Mansfield. We'd meet every Sunday afternoon at a youth centre owned by the local parish council, and play Dungeons & Dragons, Runequest, Traveller, Pendragon, stuff like that... One Sunday, two blokes turned up, and told us they were going to ask the parish council to refuse us use of the room because role-playing games were "bad for our spiritual well-being". Even though they'd expected to find a bunch of sixteen-year-olds celebrating black masses, but instead found a bunch of twentysomethings playing, on that particular day, a WWI aerial combat wargame with small model biplanes on sticks... they still insisted it was for own good. We argued against them... but they got the group banned from the youth centre. In hindsight, we should have thrown them out, and then reported them for harrassment. But, well, we were role-players not satanists...

[Cayal]

I wish religious fanatics would burn themselves.

Harry Potter has done nothing but provide good for the world. Children are reading more. There is some ridiculous stat showing child accidents were cut in half during each weekend a harry potter book was released.

That itself has done more than religion has lately.

[Joel007]

I think that any children drawn towards waving a stick around and hoping for magic will be merely disappointed, rather than drawn into a re-enactment of Faust.

Then again, children's imagination is great enough that they can enjoy waving a stick around for hours while shouting "stoppus badguyus", and I might just go and join in

[Nesacat]

All this fuss about Harry Potter ... imagine what would happen if Lovecraft suddenly became the next best thing since sliced bread. Now there you have chants galore and things from beyond the stars. The Vatican would probably have collective apoplexy.

With all the problems facing children today ... you'd think the church would get past complaining about something that is doing a whole lot of good. Children are reading and reading about other children who make it through so very harsh times. What's the problem with that? At no time is the Church ever mentioned, even obliquely.

And hey ... if imaginations come alive and days are enriched because kids see magic in railway platforms and small animals ... then all the better for them.

[Ursa major]

Originally Posted by iansales

...but instead found a bunch of twentysomethings playing ... with small model biplanes on sticks...

So that's what real magic wands look like!


(And I'm a bit disturbed that a Great Old One can't spell. But at least Py didn't call it a trainsubstation. )


Regarding the thread topic, it seems the world is full of people waiting to be upset by something. I'd see it as a positive that so many of them have to make up things to worry about if there weren't so many real things in the world that need sorting out.

As to magic in fiction, I loved all sorts of fantasy stories as a child, but I can't recall a time when I haven't been very sceptical about things. But perhaps that's the problem these people see: they're afraid of those of us who can differentiate between fiction and the real world.

[The Pelagic Argosy]

The question I've always had when I come across Christian objections to Harry Potter is: Do these Christians actually believe that magic works?

I don't know what the Catholic stance is, but after reading the Paw Creek article until I got a splitting headache, the answer for these evangelicals is obviously - disturbingly - yes. Harry Potter is, apparently, every bit as true as the Bible. To quote the article: "Without question I believe the Harry Potter series is a creation of hell helping to prepare the younger generation to welcome the Biblical prophesies of demons and devils led by Lucifer himself. Infallible scripture, the Holy Bible, has outlined the end time scenario, and the Harry Potter script sounds exactly like the devil's part...Death, mysteries, strange paranormal powers and scary happenings will become the order of the day. Casting spells, death by voodoo activities, and fearful sights will be worldwide. The Harry Potter book reveals a very enlightening picture of the coming days for those 'left behind' after the Rapture of the saints."

(I apologize for making you read that.)

So my handy "but this is just fiction" argument doesn't hold any water here. "Fiction" is now a meaningless concept. Everything ever written, every idea that pops into one's head (see this author's alarm over Rowling's inspiration on the train) is potentially the all-too-real work of the devil. The Dewey decimal system itself is probably the work of the devil. (I wish I was kidding.)

And if you, like me, read phrases like "scary happenings" as being vague and meaningless, the argument is foiled again. They have some very specific objections. At one point in SS, wormwood is used to make a potion. (The article quotes the exact page numbers, if you doubt), and the article quotes "an anonymous physician and father" who points out that wormwood - which is all too real - contains thujone, a hypnotic drug which is banned by the FDA. "Another record near the end of the book portrays seven bottles containing drug potions: 3 contain poison, 2 contain wine and 2 contain a magic drug which the children are to correctly choose from and drink in order to reach their goal -- the sorcerer's stone, which they are seeking, before the effects of the drug wears off."

So, apparently, if I'm reading this correctly, if I can foil the FDA and get my hands on some wormwood and follow the instructions in SS for making the proper "drug potion," I can find the sorcerer's stone and live forever? That might be a very seductive proposition. Luckily, I am an atheist, and I don't believe in the enticements of the devil any more than I believe in god, and I'm not going to waste my time stirring a cauldron.

(BTW, kudos to the muggle FDA for being on top of the wormwood situation. The Ministry of Magic has obviously overlooked the dangers posed by this hypnotic drug and has failed to keep it out of the hands of wizard children. But, of course, the Ministry has had it's share of problems recently. And, as the Ministry of Magic is a British institution, I don't know if they have any jurisdiction over American drug-potion making.)

All I can say to people who believe that the line between fantasy and reality is nonexistent is: sucks to be you. Sorry, but that's the most coherent answer I can come up with. As an atheist and a Harry Potter fan, I can't answer these charges concerning the "scary happenings." You have my number there. Good luck in your war with the devil and the occult.

If it's any consolation, if you're right, sucks more to be me.

[Connavar]

Originally Posted by iansales

Many years ago, I was a member of a role-playing group in my home town of Mansfield. We'd meet every Sunday afternoon at a youth centre owned by the local parish council, and play Dungeons & Dragons, Runequest, Traveller, Pendragon, stuff like that... One Sunday, two blokes turned up, and told us they were going to ask the parish council to refuse us use of the room because role-playing games were "bad for our spiritual well-being". Even though they'd expected to find a bunch of sixteen-year-olds celebrating black masses, but instead found a bunch of twentysomethings playing, on that particular day, a WWI aerial combat wargame with small model biplanes on sticks... they still insisted it was for own good. We argued against them... but they got the group banned from the youth centre. In hindsight, we should have thrown them out, and then reported them for harrassment. But, well, we were role-players not satanists...

Whats crazy is that the council listened to them and banned the group.

That would never happen over here, role playing is huge, our towns junior high school lets my 22 year old brother and his twentysomething friends roleplaying club play their games every thursday evening.