7.09: Never Leave Me - Page 3 - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Shaun · 21st January 2003, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by little smaug
One thing that kinda bugged me:

Buffy: You took a bite out of Andrew.
Spike: Who?
Buffy: Tucker's brother.
Spike: Oh.

I agree that it's annoying now.
Anyway, my take on the conversation is that Buffy is (perhaps not on purpose) making Spike feel uncomfortable. Everyone else in the Scooby gang was there then (possibly not Dawn) and Spike has never been part of the gang. His "Oh." was him pretending to know what was going on. He wants to fit in.

Or it could just be the writers screwed up which, I'm sorry to say, is probably the most likely.

markpud · 15th March 2003, 06:16 PM

Okey dokey, if I can pull this one back from the tangent you've gone down, as us Brits have now seen this episode...

I've just read throught your very detailed discussions in this thread, and you've covered a lot of what I had in my mind, esp about the Council building being blown up - it wasn't clear but it was pretty well implied.. They did go to lengths to make it clear that they had no proof of Giles being dead, so there's still hope for Mr Gold Blend to show up somewhere along the lines

I think the use of explosives here is significant, as the BB is using modern technology as well as magics, something we've only seen with Adam up to now, and he was engineered.

I thought it was very stupid of Buffy to tie Spike to a wooden chair - even if he didn't break out of it, it seemd he could still move around attached to it, and it was fairly obvious that he was gonna break out of it. I like the way the BB was thinking here, very clever use of Spike to attempt to silence Andrew, this evil is a very clever evil, this has been reinforced several times now.

And to cut to the big finish, poor Spike being drained, that was a lovely sight :dead: and the "UberVampire" that came up (nice "Evil Dead" effect on opening the seal btw) was an interesting ending. I think they over played the overhead ending shot of the vamp with its arms outstretched though.. I totally thought "The Master" as they revealed it, that was obviously the idea, they did the same thing with Andrew in the Spike-esque leathers.

I don't think this vamp is the BB or First Evil as I guess we can now call it, if I may be permitted to give a little Angel S4 spoiler, in the episode "Apocalypse, Nowish.."

The demon that came up in this one seemed scarier than this vampire, and the two creatures rising up is really not co-incidence, I hope they synch the two shows up even without actual cross-over and have Angel and Buffy fighting the same BB in different ways. Clearly this BB is powerful enough to manifest in both Sunnydale, LA, England and have it's harbingers around the world

As for the demons who attacked the gang, the same ones who've been offing the slayers (or I've assumed they were slayers-in-training anyway) managed to be held off by Dawn, Xander & co and killed by Buffy yet they killed all these slayers and watchers so easily??? Or perhaps they allowed themselves to be beaten this time as they were just a distraction to allow Spike to be kidnapped - but a better distraction would have been to kill Buffy and her scoobies!

Okay, end of brain-dump!

VAMPette · 18th March 2003, 04:22 PM

Everything's been covered so much in detail for this ep, so I'll make this brief -

Anya and Xander doing good cop/bad cop - hilarious

Some funny stuff with Andrew too esp. the pig scene

The Watcher's Council - Agree with Shaun on this - it would have been a great storyline, but I guess the point is really that Buffy and the group are kind of on their own now - if the slayers and the watchers are getting the chop one by one, the most obvious thing is for the Watchers Council to sort it out - now Buffy has to face this on her own - or at least to lead the remaining slayers etc. without interference from WC. Also thought it was a bit funny, with Quentin giving his rousing 'to battle' speech, followed immediately by the explosion, okay sick sense of humour. And the buildings mix up - a bit weak

Spike - loved the scene where he breaks free of the ropes, am really loving the evil Spike bit plus JM is doing a great job of contrasting the different aspects of Spike - first when he's having the conversation about his soul with Buffy, he's got a great rueful grin kind of honest and resigned about the situation, then when we know he's under the influence of BB, bloodthirsty and vicious then later with the heart to heart with Buffy, vulnerable and open, then at the end, the BB being Spike - really chilling and evil with the sarcastic asides and one liners. It's like getting four Spikes for the price of one!

The uber vampire - yeah like everyone else I thought it was the Master but I suppose it would've been too obvious. I love Obcooke's idea about pure demons taking over the hellmouth and earth. And it does make sense, unlike some of the apocalyses we've had.

Just wondering about Spike's role in all this, I just keep wondering if the BB has drafted him in as some kind of replacement for Angel - you know the way Wes keeps going on about Angel being an important player in the Apocalypse - could the BB have manipulated Spike to get his soul so that he could fufill Angel's role in the prophecy and cos the BB can control Spike, he can control the apocalypse. Am I completely crazy?

Highlander, where are you posting your theory on Spike and his need for a friend? - luv to read it.

Highlander II · 18th March 2003, 09:03 PM

Uber Vamp -- there's a cool article in the newest issue of the Buffy mag about the make-up guys and how they did some of the monsters for BtVS and Angel - Uber Vamp is one of 'em - he was kinda supposed to look like the Master - but like a version of a vamp pre-Master - it's why he kinda looks the way he does --

Um - my thing about Spike wanting / needing a friend? um - lemme check and see if I've put it anywhere here - if not, I'll find a home for it ------- just keep reminding me --- I forget stuff like that -

Steffi · 19th March 2003, 01:50 PM

:blush:

I have a theory about BB he has to be the first Vampyre he looked like nasfuratu (is that how you spell it) probably will have loads of magic power.

Buffy and the Scooby gang will defeat him though:redface: :redface:

Highlander II · 22nd March 2003, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VAMPette
Highlander, where are you posting your theory on Spike and his need for a friend? - luv to read it.

Okay- finally got his up ---

it's here: Spike's Backyard <-- my LJ --- go forth and read ---

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15th March 2003, 06:16 PM	#32 (permalink)
markpud Super-Mod to the gods Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: with Buffy, in Manchester, England... Posts: 4,732	Okey dokey, if I can pull this one back from the tangent you've gone down, as us Brits have now seen this episode... I've just read throught your very detailed discussions in this thread, and you've covered a lot of what I had in my mind, esp about the Council building being blown up - it wasn't clear but it was pretty well implied.. They did go to lengths to make it clear that they had no proof of Giles being dead, so there's still hope for Mr Gold Blend to show up somewhere along the lines I think the use of explosives here is significant, as the BB is using modern technology as well as magics, something we've only seen with Adam up to now, and he was engineered. I thought it was very stupid of Buffy to tie Spike to a wooden chair - even if he didn't break out of it, it seemd he could still move around attached to it, and it was fairly obvious that he was gonna break out of it. I like the way the BB was thinking here, very clever use of Spike to attempt to silence Andrew, this evil is a very clever evil, this has been reinforced several times now. And to cut to the big finish, poor Spike being drained, that was a lovely sight :dead: and the "UberVampire" that came up (nice "Evil Dead" effect on opening the seal btw) was an interesting ending. I think they over played the overhead ending shot of the vamp with its arms outstretched though.. I totally thought "The Master" as they revealed it, that was obviously the idea, they did the same thing with Andrew in the Spike-esque leathers. I don't think this vamp is the BB or First Evil as I guess we can now call it, if I may be permitted to give a little Angel S4 spoiler, in the episode "Apocalypse, Nowish.." The demon that came up in this one seemed scarier than this vampire, and the two creatures rising up is really not co-incidence, I hope they synch the two shows up even without actual cross-over and have Angel and Buffy fighting the same BB in different ways. Clearly this BB is powerful enough to manifest in both Sunnydale, LA, England and have it's harbingers around the world As for the demons who attacked the gang, the same ones who've been offing the slayers (or I've assumed they were slayers-in-training anyway) managed to be held off by Dawn, Xander & co and killed by Buffy yet they killed all these slayers and watchers so easily??? Or perhaps they allowed themselves to be beaten this time as they were just a distraction to allow Spike to be kidnapped - but a better distraction would have been to kill Buffy and her scoobies! Okay, end of brain-dump!

18th March 2003, 04:22 PM	#33 (permalink)
VAMPette To the Angel- Mobile! Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 419	Everything's been covered so much in detail for this ep, so I'll make this brief - Anya and Xander doing good cop/bad cop - hilarious Some funny stuff with Andrew too esp. the pig scene The Watcher's Council - Agree with Shaun on this - it would have been a great storyline, but I guess the point is really that Buffy and the group are kind of on their own now - if the slayers and the watchers are getting the chop one by one, the most obvious thing is for the Watchers Council to sort it out - now Buffy has to face this on her own - or at least to lead the remaining slayers etc. without interference from WC. Also thought it was a bit funny, with Quentin giving his rousing 'to battle' speech, followed immediately by the explosion, okay sick sense of humour. And the buildings mix up - a bit weak Spike - loved the scene where he breaks free of the ropes, am really loving the evil Spike bit plus JM is doing a great job of contrasting the different aspects of Spike - first when he's having the conversation about his soul with Buffy, he's got a great rueful grin kind of honest and resigned about the situation, then when we know he's under the influence of BB, bloodthirsty and vicious then later with the heart to heart with Buffy, vulnerable and open, then at the end, the BB being Spike - really chilling and evil with the sarcastic asides and one liners. It's like getting four Spikes for the price of one! The uber vampire - yeah like everyone else I thought it was the Master but I suppose it would've been too obvious. I love Obcooke's idea about pure demons taking over the hellmouth and earth. And it does make sense, unlike some of the apocalyses we've had. Just wondering about Spike's role in all this, I just keep wondering if the BB has drafted him in as some kind of replacement for Angel - you know the way Wes keeps going on about Angel being an important player in the Apocalypse - could the BB have manipulated Spike to get his soul so that he could fufill Angel's role in the prophecy and cos the BB can control Spike, he can control the apocalypse. Am I completely crazy? Highlander, where are you posting your theory on Spike and his need for a friend? - luv to read it.

18th March 2003, 09:03 PM	#34 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,408	Uber Vamp -- there's a cool article in the newest issue of the Buffy mag about the make-up guys and how they did some of the monsters for BtVS and Angel - Uber Vamp is one of 'em - he was kinda supposed to look like the Master - but like a version of a vamp pre-Master - it's why he kinda looks the way he does -- Um - my thing about Spike wanting / needing a friend? um - lemme check and see if I've put it anywhere here - if not, I'll find a home for it ------- just keep reminding me --- I forget stuff like that -

19th March 2003, 01:50 PM	#35 (permalink)
Steffi Sexy & Sassy Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: wales Posts: 586	:blush: I have a theory about BB he has to be the first Vampyre he looked like nasfuratu (is that how you spell it) probably will have loads of magic power. Buffy and the Scooby gang will defeat him though:redface: :redface: