4.07: Apocalypse, Nowish - Page 2 - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Highlander II · 9th March 2003, 02:28 AM

I need to hurry up and get to this point in my Angel re-watching -

Haven't watched this ep in a while - think I wanna go back and watch again to do some analysis ---- hmmmmm

All great points - but to expand - gotta go watch again...

Tabitha · 9th March 2003, 09:09 PM

I have seen quite a few references to this episode as being named "Rain of Fire" - anyone know which is the correct title?

Personally I prefer Apocalypse Nowish.

Highlander II · 10th March 2003, 04:48 PM

Well, I think the advert sub-title was 'Rain of Fire' - that's how the WB advertised it -

I believe the 'official' ep title was 'Apocalypse Nowish' -- (note, I *believe* - not 100%) - but it's the title I've seen everywhere I've been -

I think 'Rain of Fire' was the title the WB used to try to get ppl to watch it -- they've done similar stuff w/ Smallville and Birds of Prey in the past --

pamie · 10th March 2003, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tabitha
We-ell. THAT was an interesting episode, and I am not sure whether it was interesting in a good way or not.

I can't agree more with OB's assessment of the characterization being all wrong. I think I have a few bits and pieces to add to the big pile of bad. Cordy explaining her problem with Angel as being to do with his past actions. Er, I dunno, but that just doesn't seem right. Her character for the past three seasons has always acknowledged Angel's potential bad-ness, and I find it unconvincing that she would be so turned off by his past acts, especially when, in her higher-being role, she could also have peeked in on his pretty impressive tendency for selflessness, and the good he has done since being called to fight on behalf of TPTB.

I totally agree with this..I was really confused by Cordy in this one..I can't beleive that she is all I love you Angel but can't be with you becasue of all the bad things you have done..then the next minute she is sleeping with Connor coz it might be the end of the world. It seemed a little confusing for me!

It was a good episode and I like the new bad thing in it but is it just me or did he look a little like Skip form the other episodes?

Yoda Rocks · 12th March 2003, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pamie

I totally agree with this..I was really confused by Cordy in this one..I can't beleive that she is all I love you Angel but can't be with you becasue of all the bad things you have done..then the next minute she is sleeping with Connor coz it might be the end of the world. It seemed a little confusing for me!

It was a good episode and I like the new bad thing in it but is it just me or did he look a little like Skip form the other episodes?

Oh yes pamie. There was deffo a skip-tastic element to the whole "big bad" dude. I personally like skip though, so that aint a bad thing:rolly2:

I am interested to see what they are gonna do now with the whole Cordy, Angel, Conner thing. I wonder if they will have Angel and Connor as enemies from now on? Only gotta wait till tomorrow at 8.00 and all me questions will be answered.

markpud · 15th March 2003, 07:31 PM

I'm a little behind with my Angel's but just watched this one...

To add to the discussion about the Wesley-Lilah relationship, I actually think it was an interesting direction to take Wesley in, certainly at the end of S3 it showed just how little self-respect he had and how little he cared about anything - just meaninless pleasure, and with each using the other for pleasure and for information about Angel & W&H respectively. Probably it has gone on a bit too long now though, with Wes seeming to be coming back around to the idea of helping out again..

Anyway, as for the demon, what do people think the significance of it rising in Conner's birthplace is? Co-incidence (is there ever such a thing in the Whedon-universe?), a mis-lead or did the demon really have some connection to Conner?

But man, this was one tough son of a gun, Angel got a real good pasting, as did the others, the fight scene itself was excellent, with some Matrix-y scenes like the demon redirecting the crossbow arrows and absorbing the gun shots. But as someone pointed out previously, Wesley really should know that guns rarely work, the only time I can recall them being a useful weapon is when used by vamps against humans (BtVS 1.07 : Darla for example).

As for the Conner-Cordy thing, I think it must be to allow for Charisma's pregancy, but however out of character it seems, who else could she sleep with? Angel couldn't make her pregnant and theres the risk of Angelus, Wesleys not interested to my knowledge (forgetting the crush from BtVS for now), Gunn's all about Fred, Lorne - well I just don't think so...

PS What about Gavin? He seemed to have folded very easily, although we know how persuasive Angel can be...

Tabitha · 17th March 2003, 12:21 AM

There has to be some significance to the Beast rising in Connor's birthplace, doesn't there? Maybe it might not be one that someone could guess, but I am pretty sure there is one.

Personally I wasn't too keen on the fight scenes, bit too Matrixy, and obviously a lot cheaper than that movie. Just didn't look right in this show - especially the gun toting Wes...

Surely they could have had Cordy become pregnant by someone else? I read somewhere recently that Joss described "Angel" as being quite soap-opera like, and this just confirms it. Everyone is having their own little crises and no one can seem to really see the bigger picture.

On the whole I liked this episode, but I found it deeply unsatifying on some levels. Charaterisation was just off - we know what kind of woman Cordy is. If it was about to be the end of the world, and she knew something about it, would she jump into bed with the nearest virgin or get out there are try and do something to stop it?

markpud · 17th March 2003, 04:42 PM

I definitely think the Cordy of old would have gone out and tried to stop it, but she's not been the same since she came back...

Highlander II · 17th March 2003, 04:45 PM

It's so hard to comment on these earlier episodes after having seen some later ones - but I'll try not to lead you to spoilers -

I did think the gang was way out of character - like I mentioned before - b/c they didn't do any research before they went after the Beast - they just ran out there w/ all the weapons - Lorne included (and I'm still not sure why he went with) - and just started pounding away on this thing.

And, if they did any research, they never mentioned anything - it was just like - rain of birds, lots o' rats, eeeek! let's go get the big baddie -- um - think they all ate stupid pills -

Btw - who wrote this episode?

I mean, I understand what they were doing here - character development, of a sort, on the Beast - he's a big baddie and Angel can't kill him with fists and traditional weaponry - in fact, he damn near gets himself killed. No problem. Invincible big bad - okay - Angel Inc can handle that - but they could have done better with a little research - no matter what they found out -

*sigh*

9th March 2003, 02:28 AM	#16 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,481	I need to hurry up and get to this point in my Angel re-watching - Haven't watched this ep in a while - think I wanna go back and watch again to do some analysis ---- hmmmmm All great points - but to expand - gotta go watch again...

9th March 2003, 09:09 PM	#17 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	I have seen quite a few references to this episode as being named "Rain of Fire" - anyone know which is the correct title? Personally I prefer Apocalypse Nowish.

10th March 2003, 04:48 PM	#18 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,481	Well, I think the advert sub-title was 'Rain of Fire' - that's how the WB advertised it - I believe the 'official' ep title was 'Apocalypse Nowish' -- (note, I believe - not 100%) - but it's the title I've seen everywhere I've been - I think 'Rain of Fire' was the title the WB used to try to get ppl to watch it -- they've done similar stuff w/ Smallville and Birds of Prey in the past --

15th March 2003, 07:31 PM	#21 (permalink)
markpud Super-Mod to the gods Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: with Buffy, in Manchester, England... Posts: 4,732	I'm a little behind with my Angel's but just watched this one... To add to the discussion about the Wesley-Lilah relationship, I actually think it was an interesting direction to take Wesley in, certainly at the end of S3 it showed just how little self-respect he had and how little he cared about anything - just meaninless pleasure, and with each using the other for pleasure and for information about Angel & W&H respectively. Probably it has gone on a bit too long now though, with Wes seeming to be coming back around to the idea of helping out again.. Anyway, as for the demon, what do people think the significance of it rising in Conner's birthplace is? Co-incidence (is there ever such a thing in the Whedon-universe?), a mis-lead or did the demon really have some connection to Conner? But man, this was one tough son of a gun, Angel got a real good pasting, as did the others, the fight scene itself was excellent, with some Matrix-y scenes like the demon redirecting the crossbow arrows and absorbing the gun shots. But as someone pointed out previously, Wesley really should know that guns rarely work, the only time I can recall them being a useful weapon is when used by vamps against humans (BtVS 1.07 : Darla for example). As for the Conner-Cordy thing, I think it must be to allow for Charisma's pregancy, but however out of character it seems, who else could she sleep with? Angel couldn't make her pregnant and theres the risk of Angelus, Wesleys not interested to my knowledge (forgetting the crush from BtVS for now), Gunn's all about Fred, Lorne - well I just don't think so... PS What about Gavin? He seemed to have folded very easily, although we know how persuasive Angel can be...

17th March 2003, 12:21 AM	#22 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	There has to be some significance to the Beast rising in Connor's birthplace, doesn't there? Maybe it might not be one that someone could guess, but I am pretty sure there is one. Personally I wasn't too keen on the fight scenes, bit too Matrixy, and obviously a lot cheaper than that movie. Just didn't look right in this show - especially the gun toting Wes... Surely they could have had Cordy become pregnant by someone else? I read somewhere recently that Joss described "Angel" as being quite soap-opera like, and this just confirms it. Everyone is having their own little crises and no one can seem to really see the bigger picture. On the whole I liked this episode, but I found it deeply unsatifying on some levels. Charaterisation was just off - we know what kind of woman Cordy is. If it was about to be the end of the world, and she knew something about it, would she jump into bed with the nearest virgin or get out there are try and do something to stop it?

17th March 2003, 04:42 PM	#23 (permalink)
markpud Super-Mod to the gods Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: with Buffy, in Manchester, England... Posts: 4,732	I definitely think the Cordy of old would have gone out and tried to stop it, but she's not been the same since she came back...

17th March 2003, 04:45 PM	#24 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,481	It's so hard to comment on these earlier episodes after having seen some later ones - but I'll try not to lead you to spoilers - I did think the gang was way out of character - like I mentioned before - b/c they didn't do any research before they went after the Beast - they just ran out there w/ all the weapons - Lorne included (and I'm still not sure why he went with) - and just started pounding away on this thing. And, if they did any research, they never mentioned anything - it was just like - rain of birds, lots o' rats, eeeek! let's go get the big baddie -- um - think they all ate stupid pills - Btw - who wrote this episode? I mean, I understand what they were doing here - character development, of a sort, on the Beast - he's a big baddie and Angel can't kill him with fists and traditional weaponry - in fact, he damn near gets himself killed. No problem. Invincible big bad - okay - Angel Inc can handle that - but they could have done better with a little research - no matter what they found out - sigh