7.06: Him - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

obcooke · 5th November 2002, 10:33 PM

All the women are crazy about "Him", the high school jock.

Dawn wants to date Him.
Buffy wants to mate Him.
And Willow thinks that she can make a great girl out of Him.

It's up to the boys, Xander and Spike... yes, Xander and Spike, to save the girls from their basic instincts.

Highlander II · 6th November 2002, 03:03 AM

Well, by far, the funniest scene in this episode - is when Buffy's pointing that bazooka (probably kept from "Surprise") at the principal's office and then this blond streak flies by and knocks her down, then Buffy runs by, the blond streak again, then the blond streak back the other way - carrying something - (the bazooka, of course), then Buffy behind -- SOOO funny - I wasn't even paying attn to the principal at all! :lol:

Okay - opening scene - hilarious - if a little 'we're just gonna jump right into this next bit and not show Buffy and friends physicall dragging Spike out of the school basement' - Xander's rambling on and on about how Spike's gonna live in the closet and everyone's inside and Xander turns around and looks as Spike like he's an idiot for standing in the hall -- I half expected Xander to say 'What are you waiting for, an invitation?' -- which would of course have been followed up w/ "Well, yeah." and a snort or smirk from Spike -- guess that one was just too obvious - but anyway -- now everyone knows Spike has a soul - but it also seemed like sometime between "Selfless" and "Him" that Buffy told everyone - b/c it didn't seem like new information - (I hate it when they skip stuff - b/c Spike should have been the one to say - ya know - it's his soul, and maybe Buffy would have told him that he has to tell them if he wants someplace to go, but anyway) -

Hey, looky here - Dawn gets to be in the story! Of course - they also made her kind of stupid - and what the heck happened to her friends from "Lessons"? Well, maybe not stupid - but ditzy - tho, that could have been the spell -

Have to say I was thinking 'Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered' the whole time - then they 'ref'd' the ep and it wasn't a big deal -

Was a little concerned we were gonna be back to the 'get out! get out! get out!' version of Dawn, but she was not as squealy (guess they realized that no one liked that, and it probably hurt MT's throat to do that) -

This was an interesting episode, not attention grabbing, but one of those 'fun' eps that had some nice points --

Xander and Spike working together was - well, interesting - I loved their 'plan' -- hehehe -- and when they went to see RJ's big brother - anyone else know this guy was gonna be a slob? And go Spike! catchin' the jacket thing --- hey - they ARE gonna let him be smart enough to do stuff! Anyone remember way back in S2 when Spike was written smart and he was working on that thing to restore Dru's health? Yeah, and in S4 when he was hunting the Jem of Amarra? why, after the chip did he suddenly get stupid? Did the Initiative suck out his intelligence too? I'm completely lost on that point ---

And, is it just me, or did Xander 'come around' to letting Spike help real easy? Or was he 'instructed' to be nice and use Spike by Buffy?

I have one big-ass gripe tho - WHY THE HECK DON'T THEY LET SPIKE DO VAMPIRE THINGS!!!!!!!! ie: run fast as hell to get Dawn off the railroad tracks? I thought for sure he was gonna take off - he's faster than Buffy - or, he's supposed to be - vampire and all - but NOOOOOOOOO - gotta let Buffy do it - b/c the corny plot device doesn't work the other way --- Sorry - this just really gets me - Spike's a vampire -just like Angel - and Angel gets to do all these 'be really fast' / 'jump really high' etc etc etc 'vampire' things and Spike doesn't get to do jack. Yeah, this is partly b/c I like Spike better than Angel (hell, he's got more personality), but also b/c it just doesn't make sense that a vampire can't do vampire things --

This post long enough yet?

Really - okay episode - on a 10pt scale - it gets about a 5.5 - it was just average --

next week looks interesting --- (not getting hopes up - and I'm staying spoiler free this season! it's tough - but I'm makin' it! and the eps are actually better for it, IMO)

obcooke · 7th November 2002, 02:09 AM

You know it's been a long time since I laughed out-loud at something that happened on Buffy. But the attempted attempt on the Principal's life was a hoot.

I thought for a moment that we were finally getting back to the original Buffy. I even thought that this episode might be the gateway back to "normal" Buffy.

Bur then I made a terrible mistake - I thought about the episode.

I mean - why did they have to make Dawn try to kill herself and in such a passive way - just lying there waiting for the train?

I thought they were trying to take her down the path to girl power. Her attempt at cheerleading could have been used to show a Dawn that was coming out of her shell and taking a few risks - growing - in other words.

But the writers sure fell back on old moody, depressing Dawn in the end.

Just because she had tough competition, she decides to off herself? Why didn't she try to find some way to RJ's heart that took advantage of her youth over the other "old" women? Was this just an excuse for Buffy to rush to Dawn's rescue? Again? Must be Tuesday?

Very disappointing.

-----

And another thing -

Why were only the Scooby women apparently affected by this jacket?

I remember wondering why RJ wasn't mobbed with girls at school if he's supposed to be so magical. Even in the scenes with other girls - none of them seem to be mad about RJ. Why didn't all the girls have cheers that sang the praises of the love-inspiring RJ?

Four women, including one lesbian, fall in love with him at first sight, but he walks down the street with his girlfriend and there's not any another women hovering around? How does that work?

Is he able to turn the power off and on? Then why would he waste time getting Anya and Willow to fall in love with him?

I got the impression from his brother that the jacket was more than a love spell - that it made the wearer a successful person. If that's so, then why was RJ replaced as the starting quarterback?

Somehow, it just doesn't make sense.

Dru · 7th November 2002, 03:51 AM

Quote:

WHY THE HECK DON'T THEY LET SPIKE DO VAMPIRE THINGS!!!!!!!! ie: run fast as hell to get Dawn off the railroad tracks? I thought for sure he was gonna take off - he's faster than Buffy - or, he's supposed to be - vampire and all -

Aahhh! Me too! I was just waiting for Spike to do the vamp speed thing grab Dawn and ya know yell at her like in early season six "I could just rip you head off and drink from you spinal colem!" or something like that. Ya know protective Spike.

Or what about Xander and him grabbing the coat. I was thinking "Why is Xander faster the Spike?" Hello?!? Spike: Vampire. Super Strong and fast. Xander: Human. Kinda fat and as the boss at his job never gets off his ass except to walk after Buffy to find monsters.

Oh and another thing. What was with Xander fond memories about the Spell Amy did? As I remember he hated it as he nearly got killed. So now he looks back with a smile and a "Good times." ?

But I did love skanky Dawn and I laughed at Buffy's nerve to say anything about the way Dawn was dressed. I guess she forget about the mini skirts and tube tops of season1 huh? Xander and Willow drooling over her was funny too.

But the Willow not being about to handle like a guy? Is she forgetting her great love and the sex with Oz? She didn't seem to mind penises back then....

The Spike/Xander living together seems fun. Here's hoping for shippyness this season.

Highlander II · 7th November 2002, 03:57 PM

"...drink from your brain stem." is the quote -- (yeah - I'm picky - shoot me)

****

I was wondering about that jacket too - though, there was another girl - the cheerleader who attacked Dawn in the alley - the one who kicked Buffy in the shin - but there wasn't a MOB of girls like w/ the spell Xander did --

Maybe there had to be some 'latent' attraction to begin with? Or maybe there was something else-- ? Unanswered questions are annoying, aren't they?

In the street scene w/ Xander running faster than Spike, I don't think Spike really cared to be fast - he was just running - and wasn't that far behind Xander, what got me was the train scene - Spike has a soul, and he seemed really concerned about that Ronnie the worm guy, but he's gonna let Dawn get smushed by a train? So what that she threatened to set him on fire, she's still an innocent -- but it was one of those stupid scenes where 'oh - Buffy's gotta save the day and prove that family ties are stronger than love spells - sort of' things -- gah! geez - Spike isn't THAT mopey -

And why did they all get out on the same side of the car? Xander's car has 4 doors!

Shaun · 9th November 2002, 03:48 AM

When I first watched the episode I didn't like it. It just fell flat, about a 4/10. After watching it again I liked it a lot more (6.5/10). It was one of the very few episodes where knowing what was going to happen (the spell) would have made it more enjoyable.

The rocket launcher scene was hilarious, aswell as Xander and Spikes plan.

Maybe Xander's going to have a big influence on the new Spike

. A few more thoughts; I didn't like the band playing at the Bronze and yay for the Monty Python reference, "No one expects the Spanish inquisition."

Highlander II · 10th November 2002, 01:00 AM

Yeah - i wasn't really thrilled w/ the band either -- just - not my style --

I'm not a Monty Python fan - so the Spanish Inquisition thing was totally lost on me -- and to head off all the flying comments that I'm sure are coming -- I'm not necessarily much of a comedy person, so that's the main reason MP doesn't appeal to me - also - that 'to each his own' thing --- MP just isn't mine -

And now back to BtVS -- (which *is* my thing) -- still laugh at that rocket launcher scene - and I've watched the ep about 4 times now --- and it's still bloody funny!!

And 'the plan' -- too funny!

Xander had a good line too --

"...are you getting all of this or do you need an English to 'constant pain in my ass' translation?"

great line ---

angelle myst · 17th November 2002, 03:20 AM

Quote:

]Originally posted by Highlander II
Well, by far, the funniest scene in this episode - is when Buffy's pointing that bazooka (probably kept from "Surprise") at the principal's office and then this blond streak flies by and knocks her down, then Buffy runs by, the blond streak again, then the blond streak back the other way - carrying something - (the bazooka, of course), then Buffy behind -- SOOO funny - I wasn't even paying attn to the principal at all!

Quote:

And now back to BtVS -- (which *is* my thing) -- still laugh at that rockey launcher scene - and I've watched the ep about 4 times now --- and it's still bloody funny!!

And 'the plan' -- too funny!

:lol::laugh::laugh2:
I was in tears laughing at this, i had to rewind it a couple times just so i could see it all without the tears blurring my vision, i had the giggles for the rest of the ep cos i kept thinking about it. Has to be my fav ep of the season so far, i hope the hilarity keeps on comin'

Also, i like how Dawn keeps askin the same questions we are - how does having a soul change Spike, does Buffy love Spike, if she doesnt feel pity for him, then exactly why are they helping him, etc, etc. Also i like her hair since she dyed it

xxx

Highlander II · 17th November 2002, 05:21 AM

Dawn's hair is shorter than last season too --

What would be nice is, if they would STYLE it! stick straight gets kinda old after a while - and they can stop w/ the little braids clipped at the back too - that's overdone -- doesn't the hair-stylist know any other way to do Dawn's hair? She's in high school - even to the non-Cordelia's hair is important!

anyway -- back to the ep -

Dawn and her questions - yes, I'm loving this too -mostly b/c it means Dawn is a more important character - b/c she's asking these 'hard' questions and ppl have to listen to her, b/c these same questions are bouncing around their heads too, and they need to answer them --

I wanna know what it means that Spike has a soul now, b/c he's obviously not just become "William the poet" since that - but he's not "Spike the Big Bad" either --

Same w/ the 'do you love him' question to Buffy and why help him and such -- why does Buffy care now when she couldn't give a rat's butt about him last season? Having a soul changes that much of her opinion? even after ppl w/ souls tried to destroy the world and kill her? (Warren and Willow) What is it about this concept she just doesn't get? Having a soul does not make someone a good person - it just doesn't work that way -

Like the discussion in the Bronze - Xander asks 'Doesn't having a soul mean that you don't leave wet towels all over the bathroom floor' (it's in single quotes b/c it's not exact) and Willow responds w/ 'well, no, but it might make you feel really bad about doing it' (I think she said 'might' - not sure-- if she did, it's very significant - meaning, having a soul doesn't make you feel guilt - but it's more likely to than not having a soul) - then Buffy's comment about Spike showering --

which leads to another question - did Spike shower before? Like in S4-S6? Did he have a shower in his crypt? Or did the basement just make him really smelly? I'm confused - b/c there was no indication before of Spike bathing (odd as that sounds) even tho he'd roll in the dirt or get thrown into places that don't smell lovely and such while fighting demons, and he'd need to clean up, he never once said anything about running off to take a shower or a bath, nor did he ever invite, or attempt to entice Buffy into a shower or bath while she was acknowledging his presence -- just weird --- whatever ---

little smaug · 23rd November 2002, 02:58 PM

THANK GOD!!!!!!!!!! Spike finally has a storyline, and he's not acting crazy any more. It's about time!

Other than that, the episode was a disappointment. The bit with Dawn on the train tracks was just corny. The only thing missing was an evil guy with a pointy beard, cape and some rope, and subtitles saying "Ha ha ha!".

I'm happy that Xander got to be the hero for once, he doesn't seem to do much any more.

A couple of things didn't really make sense to me.
I know it's been mentioned, but why were no other girls affected by the jacket as much as Buffy and co.? The most any of the others did was do RJ's homework and have a cat fight with Dawn.
The other thing - Spike managed to leave the basement to go and get his hair cut and dyed, but he couldn't go into the school bathroom and have a wash?

Highlander II · 24th November 2002, 05:29 AM

Ya know - I never did understand the hair thing --- he got his hair done (or did it himself) - but when? and if he had someone do it - how'd he pay for it? he wouldn't scare someone what w/ the soul and all --- grrr inconsistencies ---

Also - when did Spike ever take showers before? and why are they such a big deal now? I don't recall Spike's crypt having a bathroom or shower - but now it's worth commentary? Very strange ----

Brit Chick · 21st February 2003, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Highlander II

Xander had a good line too --

"...are you getting all of this or do you need an English to 'constant pain in my ass' translation?"

great line ---

Xander was the man for good lines this week. I liked one of the last lines where they ask him if he wasn't tempted to try the jacket on and he said 'I refuse to answer that on the grounds that it didn't fit me' :rolly2:

Loved the rocket launcher scene - and Buffy, constantly referring to the fact that DAWN was under a love spell - not her obviously!

And the Monty Python thing - that appealed to me big time - its one of the lines I try and use whenever I can, that and 'he's making it up as he goes along' from Life of Brian - easy to fit into everyday office life !

markpud · 23rd February 2003, 07:41 PM

okay, some funny stuff as everyone's mentioned, the bazooka scene was excellent

When it was just Dawn at the beginning I was thinking OMG how pathetic is this girl, will she ever grow up?? But at least it turned out that she wasn't in full control of her emotions - but the others were acting with extensions of their own personality/skills eg Willow resorted to magic, Buffy to killing and Anya to robbery (???? - her love of money I guess?), so Dawn's patheticness (is that a word!?) therefore was her own personality taken to extreme. Disssapointing that she still hasn't grown up.

Nice continuity to get Buffy's old cheerleading outfit, and loved Xanders remark when she said she didn't need a new outfit - "lets not be too hasty"

And to anyone who thinks Dawn could take over as the slayer - that catfight was truly pathetic!

Enjoyable overall, not as good as last weeks, but funny, reminded me of the good ol' days of early Buffy fun episodes. 7/10

Darkest_Evil · 21st November 2003, 05:40 PM

I was wondering why Spike didn't get Dawn either. Maybe he wanted her to die. I would've. I mean, I know Dawn's a teenager, but why does she have to be so moody. Some times, i just want to reach into the T.V and slap her. :angryfire

Highlander II · 21st November 2003, 09:33 PM

Hey now - Dawn's not that bad...

*steps in to defend a ficus plant character who still hasn't gotten any development since the Key thing*

She has her moody moments, but she's not a bad character, or a bad kid, really.

She had that kleptomania thing going for a while, but she's over that.

Problem is, when they started S7 - they kinda 'forgot' to work with Dawn - actually - Joss said he had plans for her, but stuff changed and he didn't get to do what he wanted... too bad - more story stuff on Dawn might have made people like her better. I feel bad for the character, and the actress - b/c MT takes a lot of flack b/c of Dawn - and that's not cool.

Joss could have solved the whole problem - just have Dawn and Spike interact more...

5th November 2002, 10:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	7.06 Him All the women are crazy about "Him", the high school jock. Dawn wants to date Him. Buffy wants to mate Him. And Willow thinks that she can make a great girl out of Him. It's up to the boys, Xander and Spike... yes, Xander and Spike, to save the girls from their basic instincts.

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6th November 2002, 03:03 AM	#2 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,457	Well, by far, the funniest scene in this episode - is when Buffy's pointing that bazooka (probably kept from "Surprise") at the principal's office and then this blond streak flies by and knocks her down, then Buffy runs by, the blond streak again, then the blond streak back the other way - carrying something - (the bazooka, of course), then Buffy behind -- SOOO funny - I wasn't even paying attn to the principal at all! :lol: Okay - opening scene - hilarious - if a little 'we're just gonna jump right into this next bit and not show Buffy and friends physicall dragging Spike out of the school basement' - Xander's rambling on and on about how Spike's gonna live in the closet and everyone's inside and Xander turns around and looks as Spike like he's an idiot for standing in the hall -- I half expected Xander to say 'What are you waiting for, an invitation?' -- which would of course have been followed up w/ "Well, yeah." and a snort or smirk from Spike -- guess that one was just too obvious - but anyway -- now everyone knows Spike has a soul - but it also seemed like sometime between "Selfless" and "Him" that Buffy told everyone - b/c it didn't seem like new information - (I hate it when they skip stuff - b/c Spike should have been the one to say - ya know - it's his soul, and maybe Buffy would have told him that he has to tell them if he wants someplace to go, but anyway) - Hey, looky here - Dawn gets to be in the story! Of course - they also made her kind of stupid - and what the heck happened to her friends from "Lessons"? Well, maybe not stupid - but ditzy - tho, that could have been the spell - Have to say I was thinking 'Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered' the whole time - then they 'ref'd' the ep and it wasn't a big deal - Was a little concerned we were gonna be back to the 'get out! get out! get out!' version of Dawn, but she was not as squealy (guess they realized that no one liked that, and it probably hurt MT's throat to do that) - This was an interesting episode, not attention grabbing, but one of those 'fun' eps that had some nice points -- Xander and Spike working together was - well, interesting - I loved their 'plan' -- hehehe -- and when they went to see RJ's big brother - anyone else know this guy was gonna be a slob? And go Spike! catchin' the jacket thing --- hey - they ARE gonna let him be smart enough to do stuff! Anyone remember way back in S2 when Spike was written smart and he was working on that thing to restore Dru's health? Yeah, and in S4 when he was hunting the Jem of Amarra? why, after the chip did he suddenly get stupid? Did the Initiative suck out his intelligence too? I'm completely lost on that point --- And, is it just me, or did Xander 'come around' to letting Spike help real easy? Or was he 'instructed' to be nice and use Spike by Buffy? I have one big-ass gripe tho - WHY THE HECK DON'T THEY LET SPIKE DO VAMPIRE THINGS!!!!!!!! ie: run fast as hell to get Dawn off the railroad tracks? I thought for sure he was gonna take off - he's faster than Buffy - or, he's supposed to be - vampire and all - but NOOOOOOOOO - gotta let Buffy do it - b/c the corny plot device doesn't work the other way --- Sorry - this just really gets me - Spike's a vampire -just like Angel - and Angel gets to do all these 'be really fast' / 'jump really high' etc etc etc 'vampire' things and Spike doesn't get to do jack. Yeah, this is partly b/c I like Spike better than Angel (hell, he's got more personality), but also b/c it just doesn't make sense that a vampire can't do vampire things -- This post long enough yet? Really - okay episode - on a 10pt scale - it gets about a 5.5 - it was just average -- next week looks interesting --- (not getting hopes up - and I'm staying spoiler free this season! it's tough - but I'm makin' it! and the eps are actually better for it, IMO)

7th November 2002, 02:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	You know it's been a long time since I laughed out-loud at something that happened on Buffy. But the attempted attempt on the Principal's life was a hoot. I thought for a moment that we were finally getting back to the original Buffy. I even thought that this episode might be the gateway back to "normal" Buffy. Bur then I made a terrible mistake - I thought about the episode. I mean - why did they have to make Dawn try to kill herself and in such a passive way - just lying there waiting for the train? I thought they were trying to take her down the path to girl power. Her attempt at cheerleading could have been used to show a Dawn that was coming out of her shell and taking a few risks - growing - in other words. But the writers sure fell back on old moody, depressing Dawn in the end. Just because she had tough competition, she decides to off herself? Why didn't she try to find some way to RJ's heart that took advantage of her youth over the other "old" women? Was this just an excuse for Buffy to rush to Dawn's rescue? Again? Must be Tuesday? Very disappointing. ----- And another thing - Why were only the Scooby women apparently affected by this jacket? I remember wondering why RJ wasn't mobbed with girls at school if he's supposed to be so magical. Even in the scenes with other girls - none of them seem to be mad about RJ. Why didn't all the girls have cheers that sang the praises of the love-inspiring RJ? Four women, including one lesbian, fall in love with him at first sight, but he walks down the street with his girlfriend and there's not any another women hovering around? How does that work? Is he able to turn the power off and on? Then why would he waste time getting Anya and Willow to fall in love with him? I got the impression from his brother that the jacket was more than a love spell - that it made the wearer a successful person. If that's so, then why was RJ replaced as the starting quarterback? Somehow, it just doesn't make sense.

7th November 2002, 03:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,457	"...drink from your brain stem." is the quote -- (yeah - I'm picky - shoot me) **** I was wondering about that jacket too - though, there was another girl - the cheerleader who attacked Dawn in the alley - the one who kicked Buffy in the shin - but there wasn't a MOB of girls like w/ the spell Xander did -- Maybe there had to be some 'latent' attraction to begin with? Or maybe there was something else-- ? Unanswered questions are annoying, aren't they? In the street scene w/ Xander running faster than Spike, I don't think Spike really cared to be fast - he was just running - and wasn't that far behind Xander, what got me was the train scene - Spike has a soul, and he seemed really concerned about that Ronnie the worm guy, but he's gonna let Dawn get smushed by a train? So what that she threatened to set him on fire, she's still an innocent -- but it was one of those stupid scenes where 'oh - Buffy's gotta save the day and prove that family ties are stronger than love spells - sort of' things -- gah! geez - Spike isn't THAT mopey - And why did they all get out on the same side of the car? Xander's car has 4 doors!

9th November 2002, 03:48 AM	#6 (permalink)
Shaun R.I.P. Ashes Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Australia Posts: 1,798	When I first watched the episode I didn't like it. It just fell flat, about a 4/10. After watching it again I liked it a lot more (6.5/10). It was one of the very few episodes where knowing what was going to happen (the spell) would have made it more enjoyable. The rocket launcher scene was hilarious, aswell as Xander and Spikes plan. Maybe Xander's going to have a big influence on the new Spike . A few more thoughts; I didn't like the band playing at the Bronze and yay for the Monty Python reference, "No one expects the Spanish inquisition."

10th November 2002, 01:00 AM	#7 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,457	Yeah - i wasn't really thrilled w/ the band either -- just - not my style -- I'm not a Monty Python fan - so the Spanish Inquisition thing was totally lost on me -- and to head off all the flying comments that I'm sure are coming -- I'm not necessarily much of a comedy person, so that's the main reason MP doesn't appeal to me - also - that 'to each his own' thing --- MP just isn't mine - And now back to BtVS -- (which is my thing) -- still laugh at that rocket launcher scene - and I've watched the ep about 4 times now --- and it's still bloody funny!! And 'the plan' -- too funny! Xander had a good line too -- "...are you getting all of this or do you need an English to 'constant pain in my ass' translation?" great line ---

17th November 2002, 05:21 AM	#9 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,457	Dawn's hair is shorter than last season too -- What would be nice is, if they would STYLE it! stick straight gets kinda old after a while - and they can stop w/ the little braids clipped at the back too - that's overdone -- doesn't the hair-stylist know any other way to do Dawn's hair? She's in high school - even to the non-Cordelia's hair is important! anyway -- back to the ep - Dawn and her questions - yes, I'm loving this too -mostly b/c it means Dawn is a more important character - b/c she's asking these 'hard' questions and ppl have to listen to her, b/c these same questions are bouncing around their heads too, and they need to answer them -- I wanna know what it means that Spike has a soul now, b/c he's obviously not just become "William the poet" since that - but he's not "Spike the Big Bad" either -- Same w/ the 'do you love him' question to Buffy and why help him and such -- why does Buffy care now when she couldn't give a rat's butt about him last season? Having a soul changes that much of her opinion? even after ppl w/ souls tried to destroy the world and kill her? (Warren and Willow) What is it about this concept she just doesn't get? Having a soul does not make someone a good person - it just doesn't work that way - Like the discussion in the Bronze - Xander asks 'Doesn't having a soul mean that you don't leave wet towels all over the bathroom floor' (it's in single quotes b/c it's not exact) and Willow responds w/ 'well, no, but it might make you feel really bad about doing it' (I think she said 'might' - not sure-- if she did, it's very significant - meaning, having a soul doesn't make you feel guilt - but it's more likely to than not having a soul) - then Buffy's comment about Spike showering -- which leads to another question - did Spike shower before? Like in S4-S6? Did he have a shower in his crypt? Or did the basement just make him really smelly? I'm confused - b/c there was no indication before of Spike bathing (odd as that sounds) even tho he'd roll in the dirt or get thrown into places that don't smell lovely and such while fighting demons, and he'd need to clean up, he never once said anything about running off to take a shower or a bath, nor did he ever invite, or attempt to entice Buffy into a shower or bath while she was acknowledging his presence -- just weird --- whatever ---

23rd November 2002, 02:58 PM	#10 (permalink)
little smaug Fire and Brimstone Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Yorkshire Posts: 1,343	THANK GOD!!!!!!!!!! Spike finally has a storyline, and he's not acting crazy any more. It's about time! Other than that, the episode was a disappointment. The bit with Dawn on the train tracks was just corny. The only thing missing was an evil guy with a pointy beard, cape and some rope, and subtitles saying "Ha ha ha!". I'm happy that Xander got to be the hero for once, he doesn't seem to do much any more. A couple of things didn't really make sense to me. I know it's been mentioned, but why were no other girls affected by the jacket as much as Buffy and co.? The most any of the others did was do RJ's homework and have a cat fight with Dawn. The other thing - Spike managed to leave the basement to go and get his hair cut and dyed, but he couldn't go into the school bathroom and have a wash?

24th November 2002, 05:29 AM	#11 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,457	Ya know - I never did understand the hair thing --- he got his hair done (or did it himself) - but when? and if he had someone do it - how'd he pay for it? he wouldn't scare someone what w/ the soul and all --- grrr inconsistencies --- Also - when did Spike ever take showers before? and why are they such a big deal now? I don't recall Spike's crypt having a bathroom or shower - but now it's worth commentary? Very strange ----

23rd February 2003, 07:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
markpud Super-Mod to the gods Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: with Buffy, in Manchester, England... Posts: 4,732	okay, some funny stuff as everyone's mentioned, the bazooka scene was excellent When it was just Dawn at the beginning I was thinking OMG how pathetic is this girl, will she ever grow up?? But at least it turned out that she wasn't in full control of her emotions - but the others were acting with extensions of their own personality/skills eg Willow resorted to magic, Buffy to killing and Anya to robbery (???? - her love of money I guess?), so Dawn's patheticness (is that a word!?) therefore was her own personality taken to extreme. Disssapointing that she still hasn't grown up. Nice continuity to get Buffy's old cheerleading outfit, and loved Xanders remark when she said she didn't need a new outfit - "lets not be too hasty" And to anyone who thinks Dawn could take over as the slayer - that catfight was truly pathetic! Enjoyable overall, not as good as last weeks, but funny, reminded me of the good ol' days of early Buffy fun episodes. 7/10

21st November 2003, 05:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
Darkest_Evil Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hellmouth Posts: 15	I was wondering why Spike didn't get Dawn either. Maybe he wanted her to die. I would've. I mean, I know Dawn's a teenager, but why does she have to be so moody. Some times, i just want to reach into the T.V and slap her. :angryfire

21st November 2003, 09:33 PM	#15 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,457	Hey now - Dawn's not that bad... steps in to defend a ficus plant character who still hasn't gotten any development since the Key thing She has her moody moments, but she's not a bad character, or a bad kid, really. She had that kleptomania thing going for a while, but she's over that. Problem is, when they started S7 - they kinda 'forgot' to work with Dawn - actually - Joss said he had plans for her, but stuff changed and he didn't get to do what he wanted... too bad - more story stuff on Dawn might have made people like her better. I feel bad for the character, and the actress - b/c MT takes a lot of flack b/c of Dawn - and that's not cool. Joss could have solved the whole problem - just have Dawn and Spike interact more...