ESB: Why can't Obi-Wan help Luke?

[Dave]

When Luke has a precognition of Han and Leia suffering at the hands of Lord Vader, in 'The Empire Strikes Back', he decides that he must leave Yoda on Dagobath before completing his training, and go to help his friends. Yoda trys to unsuccessfully, to persuade him to stay. At this point Obi-Wan appears to him again and tells him that "I cannot interfere if you face Darth Vader."

When Luke was attacking the Death Star Obi-Wan had no such problem in giving him guidance, so why can't he help Luke in his lightsábre fight with Lord Vader?

Qui Gon Jinn freely gives his advice to Anakin in 'Attack of the Clones'.

What do you think are the rules and coda that Dead Jedi have to follow?

Was Obi-Wan lying, simply to change Luke's mind? Did he just think it was important that father and son work this out alone? Did he already know the future, in which case, why try to stop Luke at all?

[Tabitha]

I have a corollary question:

Exactly what help could Obi-Wan have given Luke?

Have those 'ghosts' of previous Jedi ever given explicit help? I am not sure - I have an idea that they are almost like the (live) Jedi's conscious finding an outlet. Although I guess that would be more like insanity, so maybe I am barking up the wrong tree.


Notes:
I thought Qui Gonn's voice in AOTC was just an 'echo' of what he had already said in TPM.

[Dave]

Originally posted by Tabitha
I thought Qui Gonn's voice in AOTC was just an 'echo' of what he had already said in TPM.

According to a quote from Liam Neeson that I read, he did go into the studio and record the 'voice', but maybe I miss-read it, or he was wrongly quoted.

Originally posted by Tabitha
Exactly what help could Obi-Wan have given Luke?

I guess that's a fair point, but apart from advice (such as 'don't give in to your anger') maybe he could boost the 'Power of the Force' in him.

[Tabitha]

Actually, you could be right about Neeson recording a new part. Those were just my impressions from hearing the voice in the film. There didn't seem to be anything new about what he actually said that might give extra guidance to those that heard. Which would back up my idea of the Jedi hearing what they needed, and it being a product of their own subconscious.

[timdgreat]

hmm well i dont think that he could have boosted his power in any way, i think that obi-wan was just keeping with the idea that Luke must make his own decisions and find his destiny on his own.


(why do i think im gonna get smacked for saying this )

[Tabitha]

Originally posted by timdgreat
hmm well i dont think that he could have boosted his power in any way, i think that obi-wan was just keeping with the idea that Luke must make his own decisions and find his destiny on his own.


(why do i think im gonna get smacked for saying this )

Don't worry Tim, I think I am with you on this one.

In fact, it makes me wonder if perhaps Obi Wan didn't learn a valuable lesson with Anakin - that is, don't try too hard to mould a Skywalker! He realises that perhaps without too much guidance or influence these kids should be able to find the right path all by themselves.

[timdgreat]

hmm thanks Tab.:rolly2:


i want to point out on thing that i forgot it is a stated fact in the EU that luke was molded by Yoda and Obi-wan to be a weapon to destroy the Emperor and Vader. so i wonder if mabye they letting him go wasnt part of there plan. who knows mabye they were trying to teach im a lesson:rolly2:

[Dave]

Originally posted by timdgreat
i forgot it is a stated fact in the EU that luke was molded by Yoda and Obi-wan to be a weapon to destroy the Emperor and Vader.

Could you expand on that theory? I don't quite get it. Why did they wait until Luke had grown up before teaching him to use the Force? The path to the Dark Side would be easier in a less trained mind, and he has all the anger of seeing Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru murdered.

Yoda's powers of Precognition are shown on several occasions to be rather poor. Did he and Obi-Wan really foresee that Vader's love for his son would eventually overcome his love of the Emperor, and his longing to bring order to the Galaxy? By this point, I would have written off Vader as a lunatic, driven crazy by his obsessions and by the influence of the Dark Side. Only Luke really held any hope out for him.

[timdgreat]

ok well first let me say that as precognitive powers go in the star wars universe, as in thoose granted by the force, the future is always in motion, and never certain. and when if at all, u are granted a vision of the future it is usually sketchy and leaves more questions then awnsers, so no i dont think that Yoda could have or did forsee that Vader would do what he did. i would also state the example that the emperor forsaw the battel of endor, and up to a point thought that things were going well and as he forsaw them, but in the end i doubt he would have been there if he had forseen his own demise.

now then as for my statment that luke was trained as a weapon, what i have gotten from the books and has been written is this: Obi-wan and Yoda trained luke to specifically battle the emperor and vader, they didnt train him in all ascpects of the force, but just in the ones that would help him defeat them both when he finally faced them both.

Does that help clarify things a little dave?:rolly2:

[Dave]

Oh! Okay! I thought that you were being more specific than that. You don't need to read the EU books to see that. Yoda and Obi-Wan want the Empire to fall, and the Empire IS Darth Vader and the Emperor. "That boy is our last hope." "No there is another."

But I personally think that leaving his training until he grew up was dangerous. I think there was more chance that he could be turned by Vader. Vader and the Emperor thought so too.

I can see that the opposite case can be made though; that the fact that he had a normal childhood, with normal friends and family (unlike Anakin did), that that would lower the chance of him turning to the Dark Side.

[timdgreat]

yeah if he grew up being trained then he might have gotten power hungry and had an ego, but also training him might have drawn vader to him and warned the emperor that he was out there:rolly2: