7.03: Same Time, Same Place - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

obcooke · 9th October 2002, 04:19 AM

Willow's back and there's gonna be trouble (after all, it is Sunnydale).

You ever have one of those days when you tried to hook up with someone, but you just kept missing each other?

The best monster of the season so far, IMHO, appears.

And Anya tries to change her life, but she just keeps getting sucked back in.

obcooke · 9th October 2002, 04:56 AM

DAWN: Also, I'm sure there's tons of stuff like this. You know, procedures we can use that don't involve magic spells - Just good solid detective work. And, we can develop a database of tooth impressions and demon skin samples and I could wear high-heels more often.

Buffy: Wow, that was so close to being enpowered.

DAWN: Everybody loves a slender ankle.

---------

Okay, it's official, I agree with Spike. Dawn really is getting scary.

obcooke · 9th October 2002, 05:33 AM

A couple of quick impressions:

The good stuff -

The gang is back together.

I liked the concern that Anya showed, despite her best efforts to be aloof and bitter.

The bad stuff -

The dialogue isn't quite as snappy as the past, even though there are some bright spots.

I know its logical for Spike to still be traumatized, but I wish he'd get to the point where he can hold a conversation, or are we going to have to put with his puzzing whimsy until the finale?

The weird stuff -

What are they trying to say about Dawn? Are her comments about high-heeled ankles supposed to be a premonition of her approaching maturity? Or are they just having fun lampooning the sudden spate of Criminal Science shows where beautiful people in lab coats fight evil with a microscope and a database?

Highlander II · 9th October 2002, 03:23 PM

Wrote this up before I read any comments here -- it's kinda long - so, beware ---

I’ll admit, I was a little confused by the ‘double takes’ at first – but as the episode progressed, I understood what was going on and they made more sense. The ones at the airport and in Buffy’s house were good starts, but the one at the construction site that ‘panned’ back and forth was nicely done – from Willow to the body, back up to Buffy and Xander, then back over to Willow climbing the ladder – very smooth transitioning. However, my favorite was the one w/ Spike in the basement, b/c when you first see it – it looks like he’s just talking to the wall – nicely angled w/ the camera there, then it shifts and Buffy and Xander come down to the basement and you see that POV and realize that he wasn’t asking the wall for a word that rhymed w/ ‘glowing’, but was talking to Buffy – or more like talking ‘at’ Buffy, then the ‘Everyone’s talking to me, no one’s talking to each other’ line makes more sense.

Can I just say that I love crazy Spike? James is brilliant! I’ve heard so many people comment that the ‘Spikeobabble’ is getting annoying – we’re only 3 episodes in – personally – I love it – it gives us so much more insight into William/Spike and it give James a chance to stretch the acting abilities we all know he has, a little. Spike is much more interesting this way than he was pining after Buffy (which, yeah, he’s still kinda doing, but it’s different).

Still hate the blue shirt.

Love the scene when they walk through the woods following ‘Bloodhound’ Spike and Xander crashes into him b/c he’s not paying attention, then Buffy points out that they’re looking at a rock cliff, and Xander suggests it might be a flesh-eating rock cliff.

Spike: “There’s a cave in it.” (with about the BEST facial expression I have ever seen!)

Then

Spike: “I’m insane, what’s his excuse?” (re: Xander) – the BEST line in the show!

Dawn – totally getting stuff to do – loving this! I’m *so* glad they’re using her for something other than ‘whiny ficus plant’ – she is very deserving of this character expansion. And why didn’t they give her computer skills last season? Or anything else? She was so dull w/ nothing to do and no way for us to know anything about her.

Anya – who, in the past I haven’t liked much, was wonderful in this episode. Confronting Willow – would we expect anything less from her?

– and then helping w/ the spell – “It’s not going to get all sexy?” – and excellent references to last week’s episode w/ the vengence spell reversal (I love continuity!)

The paralysis thing was interesting and good acting on MT and AH being ‘still’ – nicely done there.

Oh – and what’s w/ the ‘Demons, Demons, Demons’ swipe from Angel? (Though, I don’t see why Buffy and the gang wouldn’t use that site – I’d be surprised if Willow hadn’t known about it for the past several years.) Anyone else catch that? Then Dawn talking about making a database and being all ‘detective’ about the demon hunting and slaying and such? We gonna merge the two shows back into one? Or is this a hint at one hell of a cross-over? [no spoilers! Don’t tell me if this is what they’re planning!

]

One minor complaint – tho they are putting Spike into the actual storylines a bit more – they still need to give him more of his own character arc. He needs to be incorporated into the episodes as part of the cast and not just a prop. Yes, they’re doing better, so far, this season than they did last season, but an episode that focuses on him and his ‘issues’ would be nice about 1/3 of the way into the season. Just something so we know what he did when he left and what he went through over the summer – just a little something.

Granted, they need to do the same with Dawn, but she’s being put right smack in the middle of everything already, which is great!

One other small thing I noticed – they were all concerned about Dawn and called Anya (who didn’t seem to vengence-y toward Xander) to come be w/ her, then they decided to just leave Dawn alone and take Anya with them? Hmmm – that was just – weird to me, but not the strangest thing they’ve ever done.

Highlander II · 9th October 2002, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by obcooke
A couple of quick impressions:

The bad stuff -

The dialogue isn't quite as snappy as the past, even though there are some bright spots.

I know its logical for Spike to still be traumatized, but I wish he'd get to the point where he can hold a conversation, or are we going to have to put with his puzzing whimsy until the finale?

agreed, on the dialogue - it's not quite there - but still going w/ the 'wait and see' approach on it --

See, my thing about Spike - he's not entirely crazy - he has spots of lucidity - in "Beneath You" --

Buffy: Spike, have you completely lost your mind?
Spike: Well, yes. Where have you been all night?

And in "Same Place, Same Time" --

Spike: I'm insane, what's his excuse?

There's something in there that's still functioning properly on some of the higher levels. I know that insane people can have brief periods of 'normalness' - but the 'lucid' comments made by Spike are more 'Spike-like' than the other stuff. Everything else is almost like William speaking through Spike's head - like he's in a fog and not quite sure where he's supposed to go or what he's supposed to do - thus the mini-regression into that weird 'poetic' bit - finding a word to rhyme w/ 'glowing' etc -- but then he's back and talking about 'the witch' and 'Red' - both are Spike, but when they're following him through the woods, he says "William is a good boy" - so, it's a lot of back and forth - and, to me, it's interesting and much more fun that just 'Classic Spike' --

(and I think I've hit 'ramble-mode' now, so I'm gonna stop)

DreamTraveler · 9th October 2002, 05:23 PM

Was it just me, or was Anya hitting on Willow after they did the demon searching spell? Anya talking about how sexy things were and all that. I liked how Anya and Willow finally "bonded".

What was up with the map catching on fire? Did the area where the hellmouth was just get more demons suddenly or did the map just catch fire to catch fire?

So many questions.....
all formed in my head....
and if never asked.....
back to bed....
hollowed and dead....

a little poem by me, trying to sound like crazy Spike....hehe

Highlander II · 9th October 2002, 09:05 PM

re: the map catching fire --

real reason? - tv factor - b/c Willow said nothing would happen to the carpet that Anya was so worried about, something had to happen to the carpet --

BTVS reason - there's just too much demon-y stuff at the Hellmouth site that all the little lights in close proximity toasted the poor thin map paper --

obcooke · 10th October 2002, 06:24 AM

The Boston Herald seems to like JM's performance.

Just two weeks into the new season, we've had our first Emmy-caliber performance, and it appeared, of all places, on UPN's 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer.'...

After an emotional confrontation with Buffy (Sarah Michelle Gellar) at the climax of Tuesday's episode (7.02), Marsters' vampire collapsed on a cross, oblivious to his smoldering flesh against the holy object. He was spent. So were we.

Highlander II · 10th October 2002, 03:58 PM

yeah - too bad the only 'resolution' to that that we got was Spike: You went away.
Buffy: Yeah, you scared me... a little.

ummm - he-ll-oooooooooooo --- that's it? grrrrrr

tabuno · 11th December 2002, 05:16 AM

:rolly2: After my second viewing, with this repeat episode, I am still amazed at the delicious mirroring effect that was used in this movie, the Afro-American man who drops his luggage, the luminous time on the oven, the book and door echoes. The superposition of time and place of Willow and the gang is fun and entertaining. There is the same delectable humor inserts along with the irony of space and time with Spike talking to two parties simultaneous who don't realize the existence of each other. There is the isolation of Willow and the emotional impact of loneliness and desertion along with the resolution between friends. This is a great episode that has just enough of a unusual twist to make the series stand out among most others.

Highlander II · 27th December 2002, 04:10 PM

I have a mini-continuity question -

Willow calls Giles - and mentions that she knew he would be in a 'Council' meeting all day -- um - which Council? the Watchers? Thought he was kicked out? Or are they 'keeping tabs' on Rupert - b/c they're afraid he might know something --- just a mini-slip if they meant the Watchers Council --- or is Giles back in?

VAMPette · 2nd February 2003, 03:59 PM

Could be something to do with the coven that he seems to be so in with right now - or maybe he still has some dealings with the Watchers Council without being so controlled by them like he was in the past. I mean he's certainly proved himself as a watcher now!

Anyway, back to the ep - I thought this was really disappointing. For a start, the last ep ended in such a charged atmosphere, with Spike baring his soul (geddit) to Buffy, her crying, whether to do with Spike's pain or bringing back Angel to her or whatever, and in this episode, it was as if it hadn't even happened. It would have been nice to have had some indication of how Buffy felt about it or how she was dealing with it, but nada.

Liked the Willow storyline, very cleverly done the way that the story was done from two point of views, like Xander, Buffy and Dawn sitting on the same sofa that Willow's currently sleeping on etc. And Anya was excellent, as she always is, trust her to tell Willow exactly what she thought of her at the very start. But the monster thing was weak and I really don't like Crazy Spike - he's just getting irritating and when he starts rambling now, I keep tuning out and thinking about the rest of the story. Plus, I think it's really contrived, especially when he suddenly has a lucid moment, just cos the scriptwriters have thought of a good one-liner for him. Good idea to make him crazy, but dangerous crazy or even sullen crazy would be better than this. Having said that, it'd be great to see a conversation between Spike and Drusilla right now!

Oh and just another point - what the hell is spike still doing in the basement? Why doesn't someone remind him that he has a crypt? Where's he getting his blood from? And is there not a good chance that the caretaker or somebody's going to run into him one of these days?

tabuno · 2nd February 2003, 05:07 PM

I am one of those fans who like episodes that can stand alone and the continuity isn't a major factor I've discovered in my enjoyment of such series. Ten years from now watching reruns like the old Star Trek episodes, I want to be able to just sit back and experience 60 minutes of entertainment without having to watch the entire series again.

As with Spike, considering his mental condition, it is important to understand who mental illness works and its inconsitancy - looking for logical, rational explanation or simple linear habitats just isn't in the cards here. :dead: Spike is doing fine I think, considering.

This episode was remarkable for a television series and it stands far above want's happening in television today.

Highlander II · 3rd February 2003, 01:25 AM

Real quick - to explain about the 'continuity' or lack thereof from "Beneath You" to this ep -- IIRC, I read somewhere that no one liked the original ending of "BY" - SMG thought Buffy was too harsh to Spike, and Joss didn't like it, so Joss rewrote it and it was filmed later (I think) - which is why the 'carryover' isn't as clear or 'there' as it ordinarily might be -

Tho, I agree, the scene at the end of "BY" was so poignant, that they should have done SOMETHING to carryover the continuity and make it a more smooth transition, but all we get is

Spike: You went away.
Buffy: Yeah. You scared me a little.

that's it - major let down after all that emotion ---

markpud · 5th February 2003, 12:02 PM

3rd episode of the season, and again the best so far. The demon was a little "gollum" in his speech patterns I thought...

The Willow / Buffy&Xander splits were very nicely done, and Spike is still interesting as the crazy guy, although I suspect ethy won't drag it out too much longer.
Unless I'm forgetting something Giles was fully reinstated to the watchers council, including back-pay during season 5 (Glory is a god!?), so I guess that would be why he was busy with them when WIllow phoned.

Interesting side query: If WIllow and Buffy had both tried to use the phone at the same timewould it have worked for both? Could the spell continue into the telephone system? And what if they'd both called the same person at the same time? We saw that they could both speak to Spike at the same time, but then again he is still a demon and could see both of them...

9th October 2002, 04:19 AM	#1 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	7.03: Same Time, Same Place Willow's back and there's gonna be trouble (after all, it is Sunnydale). You ever have one of those days when you tried to hook up with someone, but you just kept missing each other? The best monster of the season so far, IMHO, appears. And Anya tries to change her life, but she just keeps getting sucked back in.

11th December 2002, 05:16 AM	#10 (permalink)
tabuno Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Utah, USA Posts: 69	A Real Mind Bender :rolly2: After my second viewing, with this repeat episode, I am still amazed at the delicious mirroring effect that was used in this movie, the Afro-American man who drops his luggage, the luminous time on the oven, the book and door echoes. The superposition of time and place of Willow and the gang is fun and entertaining. There is the same delectable humor inserts along with the irony of space and time with Spike talking to two parties simultaneous who don't realize the existence of each other. There is the isolation of Willow and the emotional impact of loneliness and desertion along with the resolution between friends. This is a great episode that has just enough of a unusual twist to make the series stand out among most others.

2nd February 2003, 05:07 PM	#13 (permalink)
tabuno Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Utah, USA Posts: 69	Stand Alone Episodes & Crazy Spike I am one of those fans who like episodes that can stand alone and the continuity isn't a major factor I've discovered in my enjoyment of such series. Ten years from now watching reruns like the old Star Trek episodes, I want to be able to just sit back and experience 60 minutes of entertainment without having to watch the entire series again. As with Spike, considering his mental condition, it is important to understand who mental illness works and its inconsitancy - looking for logical, rational explanation or simple linear habitats just isn't in the cards here. :dead: Spike is doing fine I think, considering. This episode was remarkable for a television series and it stands far above want's happening in television today.

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9th October 2002, 04:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	DAWN: Also, I'm sure there's tons of stuff like this. You know, procedures we can use that don't involve magic spells - Just good solid detective work. And, we can develop a database of tooth impressions and demon skin samples and I could wear high-heels more often. Buffy: Wow, that was so close to being enpowered. DAWN: Everybody loves a slender ankle. --------- Okay, it's official, I agree with Spike. Dawn really is getting scary.

9th October 2002, 05:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	A couple of quick impressions: The good stuff - The gang is back together. I liked the concern that Anya showed, despite her best efforts to be aloof and bitter. The bad stuff - The dialogue isn't quite as snappy as the past, even though there are some bright spots. I know its logical for Spike to still be traumatized, but I wish he'd get to the point where he can hold a conversation, or are we going to have to put with his puzzing whimsy until the finale? The weird stuff - What are they trying to say about Dawn? Are her comments about high-heeled ankles supposed to be a premonition of her approaching maturity? Or are they just having fun lampooning the sudden spate of Criminal Science shows where beautiful people in lab coats fight evil with a microscope and a database?

9th October 2002, 03:23 PM	#4 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,499	Wrote this up before I read any comments here -- it's kinda long - so, beware --- I’ll admit, I was a little confused by the ‘double takes’ at first – but as the episode progressed, I understood what was going on and they made more sense. The ones at the airport and in Buffy’s house were good starts, but the one at the construction site that ‘panned’ back and forth was nicely done – from Willow to the body, back up to Buffy and Xander, then back over to Willow climbing the ladder – very smooth transitioning. However, my favorite was the one w/ Spike in the basement, b/c when you first see it – it looks like he’s just talking to the wall – nicely angled w/ the camera there, then it shifts and Buffy and Xander come down to the basement and you see that POV and realize that he wasn’t asking the wall for a word that rhymed w/ ‘glowing’, but was talking to Buffy – or more like talking ‘at’ Buffy, then the ‘Everyone’s talking to me, no one’s talking to each other’ line makes more sense. Can I just say that I love crazy Spike? James is brilliant! I’ve heard so many people comment that the ‘Spikeobabble’ is getting annoying – we’re only 3 episodes in – personally – I love it – it gives us so much more insight into William/Spike and it give James a chance to stretch the acting abilities we all know he has, a little. Spike is much more interesting this way than he was pining after Buffy (which, yeah, he’s still kinda doing, but it’s different). Still hate the blue shirt. Love the scene when they walk through the woods following ‘Bloodhound’ Spike and Xander crashes into him b/c he’s not paying attention, then Buffy points out that they’re looking at a rock cliff, and Xander suggests it might be a flesh-eating rock cliff. Spike: “There’s a cave in it.” (with about the BEST facial expression I have ever seen!) Then Spike: “I’m insane, what’s his excuse?” (re: Xander) – the BEST line in the show! Dawn – totally getting stuff to do – loving this! I’m so glad they’re using her for something other than ‘whiny ficus plant’ – she is very deserving of this character expansion. And why didn’t they give her computer skills last season? Or anything else? She was so dull w/ nothing to do and no way for us to know anything about her. Anya – who, in the past I haven’t liked much, was wonderful in this episode. Confronting Willow – would we expect anything less from her? – and then helping w/ the spell – “It’s not going to get all sexy?” – and excellent references to last week’s episode w/ the vengence spell reversal (I love continuity!) The paralysis thing was interesting and good acting on MT and AH being ‘still’ – nicely done there. Oh – and what’s w/ the ‘Demons, Demons, Demons’ swipe from Angel? (Though, I don’t see why Buffy and the gang wouldn’t use that site – I’d be surprised if Willow hadn’t known about it for the past several years.) Anyone else catch that? Then Dawn talking about making a database and being all ‘detective’ about the demon hunting and slaying and such? We gonna merge the two shows back into one? Or is this a hint at one hell of a cross-over? [no spoilers! Don’t tell me if this is what they’re planning! ] One minor complaint – tho they are putting Spike into the actual storylines a bit more – they still need to give him more of his own character arc. He needs to be incorporated into the episodes as part of the cast and not just a prop. Yes, they’re doing better, so far, this season than they did last season, but an episode that focuses on him and his ‘issues’ would be nice about 1/3 of the way into the season. Just something so we know what he did when he left and what he went through over the summer – just a little something. Granted, they need to do the same with Dawn, but she’s being put right smack in the middle of everything already, which is great! One other small thing I noticed – they were all concerned about Dawn and called Anya (who didn’t seem to vengence-y toward Xander) to come be w/ her, then they decided to just leave Dawn alone and take Anya with them? Hmmm – that was just – weird to me, but not the strangest thing they’ve ever done.

9th October 2002, 05:23 PM	#6 (permalink)
DreamTraveler Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 19	Was it just me, or was Anya hitting on Willow after they did the demon searching spell? Anya talking about how sexy things were and all that. I liked how Anya and Willow finally "bonded". What was up with the map catching on fire? Did the area where the hellmouth was just get more demons suddenly or did the map just catch fire to catch fire? So many questions..... all formed in my head.... and if never asked..... back to bed.... hollowed and dead.... a little poem by me, trying to sound like crazy Spike....hehe

9th October 2002, 09:05 PM	#7 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,499	re: the map catching fire -- real reason? - tv factor - b/c Willow said nothing would happen to the carpet that Anya was so worried about, something had to happen to the carpet -- BTVS reason - there's just too much demon-y stuff at the Hellmouth site that all the little lights in close proximity toasted the poor thin map paper --

10th October 2002, 06:24 AM	#8 (permalink)
obcooke OB-Wan Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,357	The Boston Herald seems to like JM's performance. Just two weeks into the new season, we've had our first Emmy-caliber performance, and it appeared, of all places, on UPN's 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer.'... After an emotional confrontation with Buffy (Sarah Michelle Gellar) at the climax of Tuesday's episode (7.02), Marsters' vampire collapsed on a cross, oblivious to his smoldering flesh against the holy object. He was spent. So were we.

10th October 2002, 03:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,499	yeah - too bad the only 'resolution' to that that we got was Spike: You went away. Buffy: Yeah, you scared me... a little. ummm - he-ll-oooooooooooo --- that's it? grrrrrr

27th December 2002, 04:10 PM	#11 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,499	I have a mini-continuity question - Willow calls Giles - and mentions that she knew he would be in a 'Council' meeting all day -- um - which Council? the Watchers? Thought he was kicked out? Or are they 'keeping tabs' on Rupert - b/c they're afraid he might know something --- just a mini-slip if they meant the Watchers Council --- or is Giles back in?

2nd February 2003, 03:59 PM	#12 (permalink)
VAMPette To the Angel- Mobile! Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 419	Could be something to do with the coven that he seems to be so in with right now - or maybe he still has some dealings with the Watchers Council without being so controlled by them like he was in the past. I mean he's certainly proved himself as a watcher now! Anyway, back to the ep - I thought this was really disappointing. For a start, the last ep ended in such a charged atmosphere, with Spike baring his soul (geddit) to Buffy, her crying, whether to do with Spike's pain or bringing back Angel to her or whatever, and in this episode, it was as if it hadn't even happened. It would have been nice to have had some indication of how Buffy felt about it or how she was dealing with it, but nada. Liked the Willow storyline, very cleverly done the way that the story was done from two point of views, like Xander, Buffy and Dawn sitting on the same sofa that Willow's currently sleeping on etc. And Anya was excellent, as she always is, trust her to tell Willow exactly what she thought of her at the very start. But the monster thing was weak and I really don't like Crazy Spike - he's just getting irritating and when he starts rambling now, I keep tuning out and thinking about the rest of the story. Plus, I think it's really contrived, especially when he suddenly has a lucid moment, just cos the scriptwriters have thought of a good one-liner for him. Good idea to make him crazy, but dangerous crazy or even sullen crazy would be better than this. Having said that, it'd be great to see a conversation between Spike and Drusilla right now! Oh and just another point - what the hell is spike still doing in the basement? Why doesn't someone remind him that he has a crypt? Where's he getting his blood from? And is there not a good chance that the caretaker or somebody's going to run into him one of these days?

3rd February 2003, 01:25 AM	#14 (permalink)
Highlander II There can be only one!! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 9,499	Real quick - to explain about the 'continuity' or lack thereof from "Beneath You" to this ep -- IIRC, I read somewhere that no one liked the original ending of "BY" - SMG thought Buffy was too harsh to Spike, and Joss didn't like it, so Joss rewrote it and it was filmed later (I think) - which is why the 'carryover' isn't as clear or 'there' as it ordinarily might be - Tho, I agree, the scene at the end of "BY" was so poignant, that they should have done SOMETHING to carryover the continuity and make it a more smooth transition, but all we get is Spike: You went away. Buffy: Yeah. You scared me a little. that's it - major let down after all that emotion ---

5th February 2003, 12:02 PM	#15 (permalink)
markpud Super-Mod to the gods Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: with Buffy, in Manchester, England... Posts: 4,732	3rd episode of the season, and again the best so far. The demon was a little "gollum" in his speech patterns I thought... The Willow / Buffy&Xander splits were very nicely done, and Spike is still interesting as the crazy guy, although I suspect ethy won't drag it out too much longer. Unless I'm forgetting something Giles was fully reinstated to the watchers council, including back-pay during season 5 (Glory is a god!?), so I guess that would be why he was busy with them when WIllow phoned. Interesting side query: If WIllow and Buffy had both tried to use the phone at the same timewould it have worked for both? Could the spell continue into the telephone system? And what if they'd both called the same person at the same time? We saw that they could both speak to Spike at the same time, but then again he is still a demon and could see both of them...