Which crew member should have had a promotion? - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Tabitha · 11th September 2002, 09:37 AM

We heard Harry Kim gripe on and on about how he was still an ensign, but, you know, I don't think he had much of a case, I don't know much about command structure, but I wouldn't have promoted him. However, is it not odd that the only promotion we saw during the entire seven year run of Voyager was that of Tuvok's elevation from Lt to Lt Commander? I was watching the ep today where Paris and Torres end up floating in space (season four-ish) and I was wondering why Torres had never been promoted?
There is also a scene in the same episode where Paris says "You can't order me out, I out-rank you". Why would Janeway commission an ex-con to effectively be her fourth-in-command? I was simply surprised to find that Paris' Lt outranked Torres' Lt. She had always seemed the more senior to me.

This has turned into kind of a rant about Torres, but I think the rule applies across the board - why would there be no promotions? Wouldn't those kind of rewards be a good way of keeping morale up?

Shaun · 11th September 2002, 10:33 AM

Tom also got promoted. This was after he was demoted to ensign for violating the prime directive, the captains direct orders and about a dozen protocols (Season 5 - Thirty Days).
I think he was joking when he said he outranked Torres. He's the more senior officer of the two... by a few days (or hours, I can't remember what he said exactly).

Personally, Harry would be at the top of my promotion list. Nog was an ensign for one and a half years before being promoted and Harry has shown a lot more potential for a higher rank and has done more than Nog. Followed closely on my list is Tuvok (yes again) and Torres.
As for keeping morale up, if theres too many promotions it would devalue the whole rank structure, but I agree that there should have been a few more.

Tabitha · 11th September 2002, 10:50 AM

Oh Tuvok definitely - really he could be a captain, couldn't he?

I remembered Tom's promotion, but to me it felt like "you have completed your punishment, congratulations". I felt like perhaps he should have been demoted further - imagine how Harry must have felt, Tom's punishment was to be busted down to his level! (Yes I know, as well as the 30 days).
You make a good point about Nog - and I recently saw the TNG ep where Wesley Crusher gets to wear a starfleet uniform for the first time (Picard says something like - you are an 'acting' ensign in name only), Harry may be no maths whizz, but is surely a bit further along than these two.

I see no reason, apart from the Maquis background, why Chakotay would not also be a strong candidate for Captain. If anything, he seemed as reliable and sensible a leader as Janeway for much of the time.

ray gower · 11th September 2002, 10:52 AM

Actually Paris was promoted to lieutenant from ensign twice. His only excuse for seniority would be that he was technically a Command Officer and certified to control a Bridge Watch, whilst B'Elanna is merely a Techie.

Nog's promotion was a field promotion, which needed to be confirmed by authority. A hit and miss affair which can result in rapid promotions.

Star Trek rarely pays more than lip service to real world systems, but most services promotion to a given rank (Lt Commander in the RN) is time related, just keep your nose clean.

Apart from being cabbage green, I don't think Kim did anything badly enough to ruin the assessments when the time came. So in all probability Kim would have some reason to moan, probably more so, if, by the time Voyager got home, his promotion had been 'passed over' due to time expiry.

Tabitha · 11th September 2002, 11:05 AM

Isn't Paris a field lieutenant too?
I wasn't aware he was promoted from Ensign to Lt during Voyager's duration (apart from his punishment/re-instatement), unless he got to the ensign rank before joining the Maquis/being imprisoned etc.

Beverly · 18th May 2007, 11:44 AM

I always wondered why Harry was an ensign for 7 years. In an Interview Wang did, he talked out about Rick Berman not letting him direct an episode. he requested to direct every season from the 4th season in but was never given the chance while his co-stars were. Wang also stated that he met a real life Harry Kim at a baseball game who served in the U.S navy and he was Ensign Kim while Voyager was on air. However even he got promoted before Harry. I cant link cause i have not made enough posts but im sure if you googled Garrett Wang you would find his interviews where he speaks out against Berman.

Timewalker · 26th May 2007, 10:39 PM

Harry was robbed.

Considering that of all the senior officers, he was the only one who didn't mess up in a major way at least once (thus getting the "I'm disappointed in you" speech from Janeway), he should have been promoted.

Even if Janeway figured that it didn't matter since the Harry Kim she started out with died and the one she ended up with was from another universe, that still shouldn't have prevented her from giving him his due.

sarakoth · 29th October 2007, 09:01 PM

I've always felt that Seven should've had a higher rank simply because of her value to the ship and its crew.

Flavia · 29th October 2007, 09:13 PM

Seven here, too

midichannel · 3rd January 2008, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timewalker

Harry was robbed.

Considering that of all the senior officers, he was the only one who didn't mess up in a major way at least once (thus getting the "I'm disappointed in you" speech from Janeway), he should have been promoted.

Even if Janeway figured that it didn't matter since the Harry Kim she started out with died and the one she ended up with was from another universe, that still shouldn't have prevented her from giving him his due.

Actually, he did get that speech, when he got freaky with that female alien engineer, and they both started glowing.

kyektulu · 6th April 2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timewalker

Harry was robbed.

Considering that of all the senior officers, he was the only one who didn't mess up in a major way at least once (thus getting the "I'm disappointed in you" speech from Janeway), he should have been promoted.

Even if Janeway figured that it didn't matter since the Harry Kim she started out with died and the one she ended up with was from another universe, that still shouldn't have prevented her from giving him his due.

Here Here!

Shadowmancer · 11th July 2008, 01:02 PM

I'm going to have to agree with alot of people here. Harry should have been promoted. Especially when Tom got demoted. Doesn't that constitute an opening in the chain of command? Harry was robbed.

On a side note, if anyone's ever seen He-Man and the Masters of the Universe with Dolf Lundren, Tom Paris is in that with Courtney Cox. It's funny to see stuff like that I think

Essie · 11th July 2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarakoth

I've always felt that Seven should've had a higher rank simply because of her value to the ship and its crew.

Possibly the fact that she was formally Borg - and the countless risks / problems that caused (yawn...). Reasonable idea for Harry to promoted. The problem is that if you start propmoting everyone you would end up with s ship full of commanders with no-one outranking anyone else - not ideal. In such a situation I think there would be less promotions than back in the alpha quadrant were there are countless opportunities to be promoted, change ship etc.

Dave · 11th July 2008, 04:20 PM

I've always thought Harry should have been promoted, and as already pointed out in this thread, there was a gap left when Tom was demoted, but Tom then got promoted again jumping over Harry.

They would never give Seven a rank. This may be the PC future, but they would never trust her, just as they never trusted Picard again, and made Janeway an Admiral ahead of him.

Engage Books · 28th August 2008, 11:22 PM

I would promote Harry Kim!

11th September 2002, 09:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	Which crew member should have had a promotion? We heard Harry Kim gripe on and on about how he was still an ensign, but, you know, I don't think he had much of a case, I don't know much about command structure, but I wouldn't have promoted him. However, is it not odd that the only promotion we saw during the entire seven year run of Voyager was that of Tuvok's elevation from Lt to Lt Commander? I was watching the ep today where Paris and Torres end up floating in space (season four-ish) and I was wondering why Torres had never been promoted? There is also a scene in the same episode where Paris says "You can't order me out, I out-rank you". Why would Janeway commission an ex-con to effectively be her fourth-in-command? I was simply surprised to find that Paris' Lt outranked Torres' Lt. She had always seemed the more senior to me. This has turned into kind of a rant about Torres, but I think the rule applies across the board - why would there be no promotions? Wouldn't those kind of rewards be a good way of keeping morale up?

18th May 2007, 11:44 AM	#6 (permalink)
Beverly Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bristol Posts: 13	Re: Which crew member should have had a promotion? I always wondered why Harry was an ensign for 7 years. In an Interview Wang did, he talked out about Rick Berman not letting him direct an episode. he requested to direct every season from the 4th season in but was never given the chance while his co-stars were. Wang also stated that he met a real life Harry Kim at a baseball game who served in the U.S navy and he was Ensign Kim while Voyager was on air. However even he got promoted before Harry. I cant link cause i have not made enough posts but im sure if you googled Garrett Wang you would find his interviews where he speaks out against Berman.

26th May 2007, 10:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
Timewalker Orthodox Herbertarian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 52	Re: Which crew member should have had a promotion? Harry was robbed. Considering that of all the senior officers, he was the only one who didn't mess up in a major way at least once (thus getting the "I'm disappointed in you" speech from Janeway), he should have been promoted. Even if Janeway figured that it didn't matter since the Harry Kim she started out with died and the one she ended up with was from another universe, that still shouldn't have prevented her from giving him his due.

29th October 2007, 09:01 PM	#8 (permalink)
sarakoth Uncool Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Durham Posts: 188	Re: Which crew member should have had a promotion? I've always felt that Seven should've had a higher rank simply because of her value to the ship and its crew.

29th October 2007, 09:13 PM	#9 (permalink)
Flavia Luna Invicta Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Italy Posts: 242	Re: Which crew member should have had a promotion? Seven here, too

11th September 2002, 10:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
Shaun R.I.P. Ashes Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Australia Posts: 1,798	Tom also got promoted. This was after he was demoted to ensign for violating the prime directive, the captains direct orders and about a dozen protocols (Season 5 - Thirty Days). I think he was joking when he said he outranked Torres. He's the more senior officer of the two... by a few days (or hours, I can't remember what he said exactly). Personally, Harry would be at the top of my promotion list. Nog was an ensign for one and a half years before being promoted and Harry has shown a lot more potential for a higher rank and has done more than Nog. Followed closely on my list is Tuvok (yes again) and Torres. As for keeping morale up, if theres too many promotions it would devalue the whole rank structure, but I agree that there should have been a few more.

11th September 2002, 10:50 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	Oh Tuvok definitely - really he could be a captain, couldn't he? I remembered Tom's promotion, but to me it felt like "you have completed your punishment, congratulations". I felt like perhaps he should have been demoted further - imagine how Harry must have felt, Tom's punishment was to be busted down to his level! (Yes I know, as well as the 30 days). You make a good point about Nog - and I recently saw the TNG ep where Wesley Crusher gets to wear a starfleet uniform for the first time (Picard says something like - you are an 'acting' ensign in name only), Harry may be no maths whizz, but is surely a bit further along than these two. I see no reason, apart from the Maquis background, why Chakotay would not also be a strong candidate for Captain. If anything, he seemed as reliable and sensible a leader as Janeway for much of the time.

11th September 2002, 10:52 AM	#4 (permalink)
ray gower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gwynedd Posts: 3,582	Actually Paris was promoted to lieutenant from ensign twice. His only excuse for seniority would be that he was technically a Command Officer and certified to control a Bridge Watch, whilst B'Elanna is merely a Techie. Nog's promotion was a field promotion, which needed to be confirmed by authority. A hit and miss affair which can result in rapid promotions. Star Trek rarely pays more than lip service to real world systems, but most services promotion to a given rank (Lt Commander in the RN) is time related, just keep your nose clean. Apart from being cabbage green, I don't think Kim did anything badly enough to ruin the assessments when the time came. So in all probability Kim would have some reason to moan, probably more so, if, by the time Voyager got home, his promotion had been 'passed over' due to time expiry.

11th September 2002, 11:05 AM	#5 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	Isn't Paris a field lieutenant too? I wasn't aware he was promoted from Ensign to Lt during Voyager's duration (apart from his punishment/re-instatement), unless he got to the ensign rank before joining the Maquis/being imprisoned etc.

11th July 2008, 01:02 PM	#12 (permalink)
Shadowmancer Pravus Imperator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 17	Re: Which crew member should have had a promotion? I'm going to have to agree with alot of people here. Harry should have been promoted. Especially when Tom got demoted. Doesn't that constitute an opening in the chain of command? Harry was robbed. On a side note, if anyone's ever seen He-Man and the Masters of the Universe with Dolf Lundren, Tom Paris is in that with Courtney Cox. It's funny to see stuff like that I think

11th July 2008, 04:20 PM	#14 (permalink)
Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Greater London Posts: 11,595	Re: Which crew member should have had a promotion? I've always thought Harry should have been promoted, and as already pointed out in this thread, there was a gap left when Tom was demoted, but Tom then got promoted again jumping over Harry. They would never give Seven a rank. This may be the PC future, but they would never trust her, just as they never trusted Picard again, and made Janeway an Admiral ahead of him.

28th August 2008, 11:22 PM	#15 (permalink)
Engage Books Engaging SF Fans Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 18	Re: Which crew member should have had a promotion? I would promote Harry Kim!