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Old 5th October 2002, 07:20 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Personally I wouldn't mind it being 10 hours long, but I may have got cramp sat in the cinema for that amount of time.
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Old 14th October 2002, 04:57 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Stacy
I beg to disagree. The ring is supposed to corrupt anyone who comes by it, no matter if they desire power or not. Gandalf obviously didn't want any power, but he didn't dare to take the ring. As he said, as long as the ring was with them, it was a danger even to the Wise. I think it had no effect on Tom because he is a lot more powerful than he seems.
Gandalf may have appeared as if he didn't desire power, but he was tempted. Maybe Tom wasn't tempted at all. If you aren't tempted by something, how can it corupt you?
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Old 14th October 2002, 09:54 PM   #18 (permalink)
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The whole point about the ring is that it's supposed to tempt/corrupt everybody .
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Old 22nd February 2003, 02:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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man I loved old tom!!!(actually,just having FINALLY gotten my hands on the books last week,I just finished his section) ^-^ and his Pony,Fatty Lumpkin!!!hehe.I love ponies
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Old 16th December 2006, 04:48 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil is, as Tolkein said, an enigma.

But he is obviously VERY important and powerful to Arda.

People have denied it, and exactly because they deny it I affirm it, but I believe Bombadil to be none other than Eru Illuvatar Himself.

He is so ordinary, so happy, so...out of place in the World and yet so endeared to it...I can conclude nothing else.

He is, after all Eldest of All, and was there to see the first raindrop, even there before Morgoth entered the world.



People say Tolkein denied it. Yes, he claimed no embodiment for God in his Arda. And yet...Tolkein himself often changed his mind and contradicted himself and made changes to his mythology. Also, Tolkein implied (though he waffled on this) that even Tolkein himself was not entirely sure what Tom was. An enigma. Perhaps Tolkein did subconsciously put a manifestation of God, merry and simple and utterly transcendent of all other categories, into his World. Not necessarily an "incarnation" (Tolkein would have insisted on one (Christian) incarnation of Jesus Christ at a later age even in his fictional mythology) but a manifestation or an unexplained existence or symbol of Eru Himself.

And it doesn't really matter what Tolkein said, by the way. Post-modern criticism of literature will tell you that once the author has written the text, they lose control over its "Truth". It then becomes an interaction with the reader (as vast fandoms indicate) and to me, the most meaningful interpretation, the most beautiful and sublime, is that Tom is Eru Illuvatur himself.

He is not affected by the Ring. He enjoys his life in his little corner, and lets everything else run its course, helping Good but mainly letting them figure it out for themselves.

At the Council they will not entrust the ring to him, and that makes sense...if he is God, even they might not know. And if they do, it still might not make sense if the ring must be Destroyed. They say that if he held the ring, there would be no place for him in the world anymore as Sauron would destroy all and then Tom "Last as he was First"...But this could perhaps be taken as a meaning that God cannot simply "hold" evil...it must be fought and destroyed in his Creatures...or else if all goodness in his creation is destroyed, God himself would cease to be the Good Creator, and would have lost his battle. Impossible? Perhaps, the point is such a loss was destined NOT to happen as good did triumph.

What is Tom? He is.

To me, he must be a literary manifestation of God. Uncertain, imprecise, and not fitting into the world. The Mystery of Mysteries, the Sign of Ultimate Contradiction. A kindly old man who lives in a forest singing ridiculous songs.
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Old 16th December 2006, 04:52 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Tom Bombadil

I didn't like Tom at all and the passage of the book that contained him were my least favorite. I basically found him annoying. However I did like the mystery behind him.

I agree there is something mystical about him. I saw him as a sort of Pan, neither good or evil but very very powerfull.
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Old 18th December 2006, 07:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Tom Bombadil

My 0.02, harkening back to when I studied Tolkien at university....

Tom... Oh Tom... In a more perfect world he would have been in The Hobbit where he belonged. Where he suited the tone and mood of the tale much more than Lord of The Walking....

Why he's not affected by The Ring? Cause he's from outside the whole of 'creation' that encompasses Middle Earth.... It's not that he's more powerful that a Miar or Eru... It's that he's not even running on the same power source. He's included in the tale to remind everyone that as dire as it sounds, even The War Of The Ring isn't the end all and be all of everything. (It becomes even less of a big deal when Guy Kay, in "The Fionavar Tapestry" reduced The War Of The Ring to a shadow of what really happened! LOL )

When it comes to mythology, he's actually sorta close to The Green Man.... If one takes his 'Songs' into consideration we actually see his 'power' wax and wane.... He's unaffected by The Ring, but he breaks his foot kicking a troll....

I think he's one of the best things that JRR ever created. I think it's a fine example of him succeeding in spite of himself

"The whole point about the ring is that it's supposed to tempt/corrupt everybody"
Except Tom.... or Sam.... or Faramir!!! (Faramir's whole thing is that he's got NO interest in The Ring at all! I guess Peter Jackson didn't read that part of the book ever) or anyone else that JRR decided wouldn't be affected by The Ring.... more self contradiction (One of the things The Prof. did best....)
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Old 5th August 2007, 04:04 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Tom Bombadil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legolas View Post
Hey TOm Bombadil Tom Bombadillo!

Say, who likes this rather bouncy fellow with his blue jacket and boots of yellow? And who doesn't....?

Whats the Deal with Mr. Dillo...how did he come to be the Master, and why, as the Master, does the ring not affect him. Why in a Middle-Earth of pain and destruction is he such a happy fellow?

I like Tom...even tho he is a wee bit odd. It would have been good to have a Tom in the film tho, but I guess that would add another 30 minutes to the running-time...

What do you think of the short little man who likes River-Daughters then? (who is the river-mother?)
:flash:
The ring doesn't affect him because he's the author. In Middle Earth, Tom Bombadil is Tolkien. The entire sequence is written, to me at least, in a way that seems to take the characters out of the story for a moment to another place. I think the cabin and Tom Bombadil is where Tolkien retreats to in his mind to create worlds such as Middle Earth. I always felt when reading FOTR that Tom Bombadil was almost a small joke by Tolkien. A "Hey, I put myself in the story" sort of thing.
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Old 5th August 2007, 04:08 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Tom Bombadil

I must admit I was looking forward to seeing Tom in the movies, so I was disappointed when he didn't turn up. He is a good character but I guess you can't put everyone in the movie or we'd still be there watching it!
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Old 5th August 2007, 08:29 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Tom Bombadil

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Originally Posted by Marvolo View Post
The ring doesn't affect him because he's the author. In Middle Earth, Tom Bombadil is Tolkien. The entire sequence is written, to me at least, in a way that seems to take the characters out of the story for a moment to another place. I think the cabin and Tom Bombadil is where Tolkien retreats to in his mind to create worlds such as Middle Earth. I always felt when reading FOTR that Tom Bombadil was almost a small joke by Tolkien. A "Hey, I put myself in the story" sort of thing.
That's a really interesting theory that I haven't heard before. I don't know if I agree with it, but it does explain a few things.
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Old 5th August 2007, 08:46 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Tom Bombadil

Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo! Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow! Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!
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Old 6th August 2007, 07:58 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Tom Bombadil

Some interesting thoughts.

I'd never conceived of Tom as Tolkien. Very interesting, but Tom is not really interested in going outside of his little land. He wants to know everything about his own land, but not really know about the rest. On the other hand, Tolkien wanted to delve into the origins and progress of many languages and races. I think this is contradictory to Tolkien... unless the analogy is of Middle-earth (Tolkien's personal fantasy land ) =Tom's land (Tom's private reserve to shut out the world)... now I can see it. Hmmm, interesting. I can see how Tom represents both sides of taking life seriously and not taking yourself too seriously.

But Tolkien also identified himself and his bride as Beren and Luthien, yes?

I humbly disagree with batteddy regarding Tom = Eru. Sure, both go either by their given name and/or surname (if such definitions may be given to Eru), while no other characters seem to do this. Tom seems oddly out of place with mortal creatures. Tom appears to have strong control of his land... it seems to me that he used only a fraction of his power on Old Man Willow. But in the end, it is difficult for me to believe Tom is Illuvatar.

Eru gave stewardship of Arda to the Ainur. He proved himself to be hands off and not interfere for untold millenia. His only involvement came when Manwe asked him to resolve the Ar-Pharazon incident and when Aule made the Dwarves. Both of these interventions came when the very existence of one/both of the branches of the Children of Illuvatar were at stake. I'd argue that the War of the Ring did not possess the same level of threat that the premature colonization of Middle-earth by the Naugrim or the sole world power that Numenor represented. The Valar only sent five Maiar to deal with Sauron... it seems that was four too many.

When the Ainur were created Eru sang them a song and showed them many incredible things. But I don't think he showed them everything. Ungoliant and Tom are two creatures that do not seem to be included in the list of created offspring of Eru (Ainur, Quendi, Men, Ents) and the offspring of Eru's children (Dwarves, Orcs and Trolls). I do not know who Tom is. I cannot place him with accuracy into the cosmology of Tolkien.

We can all have our theories. I think it's improbable that Tom is Tolkien or that Tom is Eru, but neither are impossible. I don't mean to cop out by saying Tom is an enigma... but he is. To me, Tom is a purposeful enigma that shows me that the world, the spiritual world, and the universe is larger than I suspect. Tom reminds me that many things are unquantifiable. Tom tells me that there are wonders around the corner. Tom exemplifies that there are friends waiting to be discovered.

There was also some discussion regarding Tom's lack of desire for power made him invulnerable to the suggestions of the Ring. I dunno how absolutely devoid of this desire that Tom was, but weren't Gandalf, Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam all humble persons. None of them had the desire for power and glory that Boromir, Balin, Eomer, Isildur, and Galdriel had. Yet the Ring called to Gandalf and the Hobbits nevertheless. I think the ability to resist the Ring lay within Tom's very being, not his mindset.

Just my two cents.
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Old 9th August 2007, 02:41 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Tom Bombadil

I think Tolkien included Tom Bombadil to bring hope and sustenance to his hobbits, as I think he does throughout their journey. The story begins in the innocent, happy Shire, then there is a period of fear in the fleeing of the hobbits from the Nazgul, then Tom Bombadil provides the first key moment of hope/sustenance, then the fear/darkness continues with the barrow-wights and Weathertop, then another period of hope/sustenance at Rivendell, then Moria, then Lothlorien... I'm not so sure if the pattern continues in the other books but I think in FOTR this is the case.
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Old 15th August 2007, 03:15 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Tom Bombadil

Quote:
The ring doesn't affect him because he's the author. In Middle Earth, Tom Bombadil is Tolkien. The entire sequence is written, to me at least, in a way that seems to take the characters out of the story for a moment to another place. I think the cabin and Tom Bombadil is where Tolkien retreats to in his mind to create worlds such as Middle Earth. I always felt when reading FOTR that Tom Bombadil was almost a small joke by Tolkien. A "Hey, I put myself in the story" sort of thing.


That´s interessant ^^. I don´t have known this, but it sounds plausible ^^
mhh... I think that´s the best theorie of "who or what" Tom Bombadil are...
It´s improbably, that Tom is Eru Ilúvatar or one of the Valar. (<-- this possibility is impossible ^^ because there are only 14 without Melkor. ^^)
He isn´t one of the Maiar, because he doesn´t show any reaction, when he put the ring on. (Unlike Gandalf, who wouldn´t put the ring on because he was afraid of beeing hung up on the ring.)

(sry my english is so bad ^^)
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Old 19th August 2007, 03:34 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Tom Bombadil

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I liked Tom, not totally though. Sometimes with all that singing he was annoying. But I liked him helping out the Hobbits. I didn't think his section slowed down too much compared to the rest of the first book.

I agree with Ray's second point. The ring having no effect on him embodies his ideals. Also his proximity to the Shire, which its inhabitants are mostly isolated from the rest of the world, emphasises that.

The reason that the ring doesn't have control over him is because he is a powerful and very old being. I don't think Tolkien ever tells us what exactly he is.
Tom is Aule. I read an article about it and it's extremely convincing. It almost breaks down every sentence that ever mentions tom's origin. I'll just post what I remember.

Tom is Aule because he is so interested in nature, which Aule would be because he was the Valar that created much of the world and the dwarves. He's close to the shire because he's studying the hobbits, a new race unknown to almost anyone. It's also kinna obvious because Tom sings a lot, the only character in the LotR that sing like that and in the Sillimarion, the Valar are made through singing.

Tom=Aule
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