What relationship does Anakin have with Palpatine? - Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles: forums

Tabitha · 10th June 2002, 06:51 PM

There is a brief conversation between Anakin and Senator Palpatine that alludes to a deeper relationship between the two that is not shown on-screen.

Do you think this is merely a friendship? Or is it perhaps a secret jedi training? What help could Palpatine have been to Anakin in recent years?

I also wonder why Anakin states that he doesn't trust politicians even though he seems to have this relationship with Palpatine (and, obviously Padme).

Dave · 11th June 2002, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tabitha
There is a brief conversation between Anakin and Senator Palpatine that alludes to a deeper relationship between the two that is not shown on-screen.

There is so much in that film I can't remember that part. Can you remind me?

Quote:

Do you think this is merely a friendship? Or is it perhaps a secret jedi training? What help could Palpatine have been to Anakin in recent years?

I don't believe he has begun seducing Anakin to the Dark Side yet, but Anakin is ripe for picking. Anakin has known all these people since he was a young boy, so he just respects them as his elders. I don't know why they would have been in contact, if they were.

Quote:

I also wonder why Anakin states that he doesn't trust politicians even though he seems to have this relationship with Palpatine (and, obviously Padme).

Obviously, he can't mean all politicians. He is just generalising his overall feelings. I do wonder why he has deveolped this mistrust of the senate, politicians and the political system in general. It doesn't seem to be working very well, but it never did him personally any harm. He can't blame it for anything that happened to him or his mother, and none of his peers or elders seem to share his views.

tokyogirl · 11th June 2002, 04:12 PM

ok, first of all anakin says he doesn't trust politicians, except for maybe four or five of them. and there's one he's not sure about yet (meaning amadala cause he's flirting with her)

second of all, i do think that Palpatine has been giving Anakin some extra training cause P. says something like 'you are by far the most gifted Jedi i have ever seen' and Anakin says something like 'only thanks to your help'. and i think that's also why he gets so frustrated with obi wan not letting him advance. (this is just my theory now, but i think i could be right) see if P. was training anakin, even a little bit, behind obi wan's back, then anakin would be farther advanced than he knew. of course anakin couldn't tell obi wan about it and i think he just wants obi wan to be able to see that he has advanced on his own. but obi wan has no way of know this, he knows what he has taught anakin so anakin shouldn't know anything past that. so anakin's kind of stuck, and getting more and more frustrated. plus because P. keeps teaching him, and letting him advance he seems like more of a friend.

Tabitha · 11th June 2002, 04:41 PM

Oh yeah - what she said! I couldn't really remember the details of the scenes I referenced - i was going to look the dialogue up on the net, but t-girl has summarized quite neatly - thanks!

tokyogirl · 11th June 2002, 04:56 PM

you are of course welcome!:rolly2:

always here to help

Dave · 11th June 2002, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tokyogirl
if P. was training anakin, even a little bit, behind obi wan's back, then anakin would be farther advanced than he knew. of course anakin couldn't tell obi wan about it and i think he just wants obi wan to be able to see that he has advanced on his own.

Good theory, yes I could believe that.

Tabitha · 11th June 2002, 09:47 PM

That idea would also help to explain why Anakin was so angry at Obi Wan. Palpatine might have been treating him much more like an adult - in comparison to Kenobi's idea of him as an impetuous child.

tokyogirl · 12th June 2002, 02:30 AM

exactly. they way to take over is a little bit at a time and to not look as though you are posing a threat while you do it. anakin's gonna like someone who treats him like he's already a jedi. he has to know that the council didn't even really want him in the begining, and now obi wan's holding him back (in his eyes). plus the fact that obi wan doesn't like palpatine doesn't help anakin either.

Iron Harbinger · 12th June 2002, 10:02 PM

Firstly, lets have no dark-side cussing. The dark side is infinitely cooler than the other side, the name of which at present escapes me (does it have one?)

I dont believe Palpatine is training Anakin. Dont seem rite. I dont think there's NEthing 2 suggest that Anakin even knows Palpatine is a Jedi/Sith Lord. Just suspicions.

Anakin definitely has had his view of what is honest distorted tho. As to whether thats just due to his uprbringing around too many Politicians, or the dark side, im not entirely sure. Certainly, he trusts Palpatine, and Lucas has clearly directed whoever it is plays him (im feelin forgetful rite now) to act shifty, as its so blatantly obvious.

It could easily be said that there is a possibility of homosexuality between Palpatine and Anakin (i dont agree with this theory, by the way, just making it available to the world). Obi sounds very much like a moralistic (grand)parent who, because they were a goody-two-shoes, assumes that everyone else should be. Palpatine is like some other, homosexual, elderly person, who encourages rebellion and free thinking bohemianism. Okay, to say that that's homosexual is a bit of a sweeping generalisation, but doesn't it all seem uncannily like the stories we read in the papers these days about 'gay-paedophiles'? Perhaps Lucas is hinting at something in his past, in the fashion of such other great script writers as Oscar Wilde? If i were in an English exam, id definitely suggest it.

Hopefully, i haven't broken any rules here (ive tried my best not to), but if I have, PM me before you goto the moderators, and i'll sort it out if i think ur rite.

:alienooh: :dead: :evil: :dead: :alienooh:

Dave · 12th June 2002, 10:25 PM

Interesting conclusions, but I didn't see any sexual attraction between them. And Anakin is clearly interested in Amidala as more than a friend.

There is definitely a mutual attraction between Anakin and Palpatine, but from Anakin it is because Palpatine treats him like an adult, where as Obi Wan and others treat him as the child he was when they first met him. Even Amidala says something like that when they first meet again, and I remember Anakin is clearly hurt by it.

Palpatine's attraction to Anakin is obvious: he sees him as the tool to achieve his ultimate goal of galactic domination. Mwahaha!

I think that's enough to explain it. After thinking on this longer, I've changed my mind back to Anakin not yet being trained by Palpatine, but they do seem to know each other well, so there must have been some intervening contact.

I really can't say more without watching the film again

Iron Harbinger · 13th June 2002, 04:28 PM

Actually, i quite agree with you: Anakin is far more interested in Pad-Me than in anyone else. Like I said, im just explaining a possibility, and suggesting where it may have come from, as this will inevitably increase our understanding of the film as a whole.

Having said this, I do think it highly possible that Palpatine is a homosexual. cant say i ever remember him being interested in Amedala, or any other woman. He also acts surprisingly like a gay paedophile (see my previous post).

:alienooh: :dead: :evil: :dead: :alienooh:

Tabitha · 14th June 2002, 12:53 AM

Interesting ideas people, though I have to admit that the paedophilia angle never crossed my mind. I really can't see George Lucas working something that dark into one of these movies...

I wonder why you make the connection that because Palpatine showed no amorous intentions towards Amidala that he might be gay? Seems like a bit too much of a leap to me - I mean, for starters they shared very little screen time and wouldn't he be a bit more likely to be attracted to someone closer to his age?

anjen · 14th June 2002, 05:16 AM

Palpatine is attracted to power - whether he is or isn't Darth Sidious - that is his "lover".

Tabitha · 14th June 2002, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iron Harbinger

I dont believe Palpatine is training Anakin. Dont seem rite. I dont think there's NEthing 2 suggest that Anakin even knows Palpatine is a Jedi/Sith Lord. Just suspicions.

I kind of agree with you here. I definitely don't think that Anakin has any idea at all that Palpatine is evil, or even hiding something. I think his comments that suggest he doesn't trust politicians don't apply to Padme or Palpatine.

On the other hand I believe that Palpatine could be 'training' Anakin, but not in a 'this is how we do it on the dark side' kinda way, rather it is more likely that he is acting as a mentor, a sponsor perhaps, that is encouraging the young Jedi to think and act in particular ways that might help facilitate Anakin's eventual conversion to the dark side....

That's my 2c for this evening

tokyogirl · 14th June 2002, 06:11 AM

see i don't think for a second that P. was training him in the ways of the dark side. i just think that he was giving anakin some extra info and advice that obi wan wouldn't have. that way he seems like the good guy. remember, evil never just hits you all at once, it creeps in little by little and disguises itself so that you don't even notice. and by the time you do notice it seems too late to turn around and fix things.

10th June 2002, 06:51 PM	#1 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	What relationship does Anakin have with Palpatine? There is a brief conversation between Anakin and Senator Palpatine that alludes to a deeper relationship between the two that is not shown on-screen. Do you think this is merely a friendship? Or is it perhaps a secret jedi training? What help could Palpatine have been to Anakin in recent years? I also wonder why Anakin states that he doesn't trust politicians even though he seems to have this relationship with Palpatine (and, obviously Padme).

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11th June 2002, 04:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
tokyogirl krycek's love slave Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: TEXAS!!! Posts: 2,098	ok, first of all anakin says he doesn't trust politicians, except for maybe four or five of them. and there's one he's not sure about yet (meaning amadala cause he's flirting with her) second of all, i do think that Palpatine has been giving Anakin some extra training cause P. says something like 'you are by far the most gifted Jedi i have ever seen' and Anakin says something like 'only thanks to your help'. and i think that's also why he gets so frustrated with obi wan not letting him advance. (this is just my theory now, but i think i could be right) see if P. was training anakin, even a little bit, behind obi wan's back, then anakin would be farther advanced than he knew. of course anakin couldn't tell obi wan about it and i think he just wants obi wan to be able to see that he has advanced on his own. but obi wan has no way of know this, he knows what he has taught anakin so anakin shouldn't know anything past that. so anakin's kind of stuck, and getting more and more frustrated. plus because P. keeps teaching him, and letting him advance he seems like more of a friend.

11th June 2002, 04:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	Oh yeah - what she said! I couldn't really remember the details of the scenes I referenced - i was going to look the dialogue up on the net, but t-girl has summarized quite neatly - thanks!

11th June 2002, 04:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
tokyogirl krycek's love slave Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: TEXAS!!! Posts: 2,098	you are of course welcome!:rolly2: always here to help

11th June 2002, 09:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	That idea would also help to explain why Anakin was so angry at Obi Wan. Palpatine might have been treating him much more like an adult - in comparison to Kenobi's idea of him as an impetuous child.

12th June 2002, 02:30 AM	#8 (permalink)
tokyogirl krycek's love slave Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: TEXAS!!! Posts: 2,098	exactly. they way to take over is a little bit at a time and to not look as though you are posing a threat while you do it. anakin's gonna like someone who treats him like he's already a jedi. he has to know that the council didn't even really want him in the begining, and now obi wan's holding him back (in his eyes). plus the fact that obi wan doesn't like palpatine doesn't help anakin either.

12th June 2002, 10:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
Iron Harbinger Bringer of Desparity Join Date: May 2002 Location: Flitwick, Bedfordshire (beds), England Posts: 40	Firstly, lets have no dark-side cussing. The dark side is infinitely cooler than the other side, the name of which at present escapes me (does it have one?) I dont believe Palpatine is training Anakin. Dont seem rite. I dont think there's NEthing 2 suggest that Anakin even knows Palpatine is a Jedi/Sith Lord. Just suspicions. Anakin definitely has had his view of what is honest distorted tho. As to whether thats just due to his uprbringing around too many Politicians, or the dark side, im not entirely sure. Certainly, he trusts Palpatine, and Lucas has clearly directed whoever it is plays him (im feelin forgetful rite now) to act shifty, as its so blatantly obvious. It could easily be said that there is a possibility of homosexuality between Palpatine and Anakin (i dont agree with this theory, by the way, just making it available to the world). Obi sounds very much like a moralistic (grand)parent who, because they were a goody-two-shoes, assumes that everyone else should be. Palpatine is like some other, homosexual, elderly person, who encourages rebellion and free thinking bohemianism. Okay, to say that that's homosexual is a bit of a sweeping generalisation, but doesn't it all seem uncannily like the stories we read in the papers these days about 'gay-paedophiles'? Perhaps Lucas is hinting at something in his past, in the fashion of such other great script writers as Oscar Wilde? If i were in an English exam, id definitely suggest it. Hopefully, i haven't broken any rules here (ive tried my best not to), but if I have, PM me before you goto the moderators, and i'll sort it out if i think ur rite. :alienooh: :dead: :evil: :dead: :alienooh:

12th June 2002, 10:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Greater London Posts: 11,421	Interesting conclusions, but I didn't see any sexual attraction between them. And Anakin is clearly interested in Amidala as more than a friend. There is definitely a mutual attraction between Anakin and Palpatine, but from Anakin it is because Palpatine treats him like an adult, where as Obi Wan and others treat him as the child he was when they first met him. Even Amidala says something like that when they first meet again, and I remember Anakin is clearly hurt by it. Palpatine's attraction to Anakin is obvious: he sees him as the tool to achieve his ultimate goal of galactic domination. Mwahaha! I think that's enough to explain it. After thinking on this longer, I've changed my mind back to Anakin not yet being trained by Palpatine, but they do seem to know each other well, so there must have been some intervening contact. I really can't say more without watching the film again

13th June 2002, 04:28 PM	#11 (permalink)
Iron Harbinger Bringer of Desparity Join Date: May 2002 Location: Flitwick, Bedfordshire (beds), England Posts: 40	Actually, i quite agree with you: Anakin is far more interested in Pad-Me than in anyone else. Like I said, im just explaining a possibility, and suggesting where it may have come from, as this will inevitably increase our understanding of the film as a whole. Having said this, I do think it highly possible that Palpatine is a homosexual. cant say i ever remember him being interested in Amedala, or any other woman. He also acts surprisingly like a gay paedophile (see my previous post). :alienooh: :dead: :evil: :dead: :alienooh:

14th June 2002, 12:53 AM	#12 (permalink)
Tabitha Save Angel! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,638	Interesting ideas people, though I have to admit that the paedophilia angle never crossed my mind. I really can't see George Lucas working something that dark into one of these movies... I wonder why you make the connection that because Palpatine showed no amorous intentions towards Amidala that he might be gay? Seems like a bit too much of a leap to me - I mean, for starters they shared very little screen time and wouldn't he be a bit more likely to be attracted to someone closer to his age?

14th June 2002, 05:16 AM	#13 (permalink)
anjen Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 10	Palpatine is attracted to power - whether he is or isn't Darth Sidious - that is his "lover".

14th June 2002, 06:11 AM	#15 (permalink)
tokyogirl krycek's love slave Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: TEXAS!!! Posts: 2,098	see i don't think for a second that P. was training him in the ways of the dark side. i just think that he was giving anakin some extra info and advice that obi wan wouldn't have. that way he seems like the good guy. remember, evil never just hits you all at once, it creeps in little by little and disguises itself so that you don't even notice. and by the time you do notice it seems too late to turn around and fix things.